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In Britain these days . . . .

Roger · 178 · 23893

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Online Roger

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Alfie - the 49 year old 'offender' apparently suffers cerebral palsy and is partially blind. Perhaps you can understand her being unhappy seeing a bike coming down the pavement towards her. . . . . watching the video it seems she just waved an arm and the 77 year old rider fell off her bike.

For me it looks like a pure accident - the handwaver was surely within her rights.

I thought sending her to jail for such a long period was OTT
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Coolkorat

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Hector, CK, all.

Has my Country gone crazy ?

It seems so !

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11811249/Woman-49-swore-cyclist-77-fatally-struck-car-arrives-sentencing.html
If you watch the video it appears the woman pushed the elderly cyclist into the road. I'm not sure what's crazy: deliberately forcing someone off a shared use pavement into traffic, or sending the person who caused the death of another to jail?


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For me it looks like a pure accident - the handwaver was surely within her rights.

No - it was a shared use pavement. The cyclist was perfectly legally on the pavement and had every right to be cycling there. Other woman 100% in the wrong.


Online Roger

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I've already commented but the post absented - CK what's a shared use pavement? I mean is that a legal status of a pavement - I've never heard of it  :-[
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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HI CK - also on the post that absented I commented that the cyclist should have slowed down when approaching - with obvious hazards around ! I watched the video again and the woman gesticulates - I didn't see it as a push. Whatever - RIP the cyclist . . .

''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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CK I think the Judge mentioned 'shared use' ???????

Does that have any basis in Law ?

I intend to appeal on those grounds  ;)
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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'The cyclist was perfectly legally on the pavement and had every right to be cycling there.'

I'm really not sure about that . . . . and 2.4 metres wide is massive - I wonder why the 77 year old, passed by on the roadside rather than the 'inside'. The road traffic looks lively to me !

As a 75 year old cyclist myself, my very occasional ventures onto the pavement in the UK are made at slow speed, hands on brake levers, fully aware of often vulnerable pedestrians. On one occasion when reprimanded I quietly apologised.

It's very sad for all that this happened.
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Good morning CK - the IoM hits the headlines   ::)  THIS is sheer madness - what frightens me most is the blatant idiocy of the 'Management' and 'Teachers' under which this happens . . .

Alfie's day - "That Thursday, he had been ‘chucked out’ of class by his teacher for being rude to a guest speaker at his comprehensive on the Isle of Man. His crime? Alfie had dared to challenge the view of the visitor, a local drag queen, who told his class in a sex education lesson overseen by a male teacher that human beings have 73 genders. ‘I said there were only two genders,’ Alfie said. ‘The teacher said I had upset the guest and I was told to leave the classroom, then threatened with isolation.’ "

"The lessons are said to include videos on topics such as successful masturbation, how a girl should roll a condom onto a male partner, intimate details of oral and anal sex, as well as discussion on transgender issues with graphic details of sex change operations showing the creation of false male genitalia."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11818581/Parents-fear-11-year-olds-scarred-life-graphic-sex-education-lessons.html
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Teessider

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Roger, I think things would improve if you stopped reading the Daily Mail.
Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.
Blaise Pascal


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a local drag queen, who told his class in a sex education lesson overseen by a male teacher that human beings have 73 genders.

Oooh dear, for the last 82 years I have thought there are only 2 genders,  male & female & that I am a male, got me all confused now !!!!!
What am I ???  (answers on a postcard please}
« Last Edit: March 04, 2023, 09:06:57 AM by jivvy »
One should never do wrong in return, nor mistreat any man, no matter how one has been mistreated by him.”
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Online Roger

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Thanks Tees - you're right of course but I do read the DT and the Grauniad too  ;)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/27/drag-queen-teaches-11-year-olds-anal-sex-tells-73-genders/

Jivvy -  82  :o :o  I always thought you were a mere Lad  :-\

But you are right - it's appalling - hard enough for Kids to grow up these days without all this bl**dy nonsense. If I had youngsters now, I'd be seriously concerned.
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Coolkorat

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CK I think the Judge mentioned 'shared use' ???????

Does that have any basis in Law ?

I intend to appeal on those grounds  ;)

Yes: shared use is designated by the council to allow both pedestrians and cyclists to use the same path. There will be signs saying that. See https://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/document/shared-use-routes-pedestrians-and-cyclists-ltn-112


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Good morning CK - the IoM hits the headlines   ::) 

Second time this week Roger! Not sure which story is more embarrassing...

worst international cricket performance ever


Online Roger

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CK thanks for the replies . . . .

Re. the cycling. OK - news to me - as are many things  ;)  -  but the cyclist has to be aware that he/she/or any other of 72 genders, is moving 10 times or more the speed of the disabled unwell Lady. So effing slow down and be ready to brake. I see there is a massive protest movement about the case but, R.I P.

And next time pass slowly but not on the road side ?

A Pal here , Oz, ex Olympic cyclist/mechanic, at 76 doing av. 100 km a day, fell of his stationary bike and broke his hip, then again. Bikes are great but it is easy to fall off so if allowed on the pavement, take care and respect others. For yourself if not for others  ::)

2. Sh*t I saw that cricket story but didn't read it as I'm still recovering from Constantine Seconds v Ludgvan - a long time ago. After 18 overs we were 12 -0 - George Dengler, 60, was bowled and we were all out for 16. And lost in 2 overs.

The message - be careful on the bike when you ride on the pavement AND get down the wicket and, if you can't do a Harry Brooks do this - I once batted for Wroughton, at Box, for 24 overs for 21 n.o. We had 7 men. The game was drawn. I'd bowled 24 at one end. Such fun. Basically I was useless but still, 'Young Batsman of the Year' LOL

BTW - I couldn't see you in that pic of the I o M team - have you grown a beard ?

It's good that we can disagree so much. ATB
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Alfie

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Re. the cycling. OK - news to me - as are many things  ;)  -  but the cyclist has to be aware that he/she/or any other of 72 genders, is moving 10 times or more the speed of the disabled unwell Lady. So effing slow down and be ready to brake.

You have just made that up, Roger. There is no indication she was travelling that fast. If you watch the video, you can see the final part before she cyclist falls. From that, I'd say the cyclist was moving quite slowly.

A Pal here , Oz, ex Olympic cyclist/mechanic, at 76 doing av. 100 km a day, fell of his stationary bike and broke his hip, then again. Bikes are great but it is easy to fall off

My elderly mother used to be a regular (but slow) casual cyclist but she fell off once and broke her wrist. Since then she has walked everywhere, but she has fallen over several times when walking and broken other bones. Her balance is not as good and her bones are more brittle than before. I think that is common with elderly people.


Online Roger

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Alfie. Nice to hear from you but with the greatest of respect - 'You have just made that up' - is at the least ignoble. I'm afraid that what I posted is my honest opinion and that's all there is to it..

Myself as a 100km a week cyclist even now, I would have been stopped or been at the point of stopping - given the fast traffic on my right and the protests from the disabled person walking legally on the pavement . . . . . (or I would not have been on the pavement at all).

Which version of the video did you see ? It came over a little differently to me in two.

And this - 'the Judge mentioned 'shared use'. I am just checking, but it is news to me that this status exists in Law in the UK - but I could of course be wrong.

ATB
« Last Edit: March 11, 2023, 08:24:18 PM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Alfie I was sorry to read about your Mum. Isn't it osteoporosis or brittle bone disease? I read dauntingly, that it's usually only diagnosed when one breaks a bone! It can be inherited and lifelong but my recollection is that elderly Ladies were the most prone . . .

My Sister now 78 and enjoying a lifetime of buoyant health, tripped in the bedroom and broke her wrist a few years ago - it was very painful but she fully recovered and had no diagnosis of brittle bone.

I'd be be surprised if my Friend Bob 'wheel wizard' had 'O' - I don't think it's been diagnosed. I'd guess that if he'd been moving fast rather than stationary at the time of his fall - he would have been fine  ;) ;) Actually his daily distance was in recent years more like 150 km (traversing the town on most rides) and he has fallen from his bike regularly over the years while racing and so on. Each time I return from the UK he commissions packs of long strips of 'Elastoplast' unobtainable in Th. He's up and running now and gagging to get on his road bikes again.

You are right that 'falls' in elderly people are common but evenso, it's a hazard worth bearing, compared to the alternative  ;)
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


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Coincidentally I had an assessment for Osteoporosis yesterday after breaking my ankle last year. I was assessed as low risk due to having a healthy diet, not smoking and not being female.
Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.
Blaise Pascal


Online Roger

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Ouch I bet that hurt Teess  :P 

Bob dislocated his 'new hip' when slipping on some wet tiles some weeks later. Amazing stuff - they put him on the floor and sat on him to manipulate the reconnecting of the hip, being able somehow to watch the progress on cameras. He said he had never felt pain like it. He has had a lifetime of breaking bones but I doubt he has the 'BB' problem.

For any here getting elderly as I am now myself, (it hurts to write that), taking care to avoid falls is very important.
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online caller

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Well, regarding the perverse jailing of the disabled lady for the murder of a cyclist. An appeal has been lodged.

A tragic event all around, will in due course, demonstrate yet another failing of the Police and judicial system to ensure a fair trial took place.

This is copied from todays Times, because of the paywall:

Branded ‘the pavement killer’, Auriol Grey should not be in jail for cyclist death, says her family

The brother-in-law of a disabled woman sent to prison over the death of cyclist Celia Ward on a disputed pavement is backing her appeal

Shortly after the sudden death of his wife, Genny, Alisdair Luxmoore wrote to her elderly mother reassuring her that he would still care for Genny’s vulnerable sister, Auriol Grey.

Typed on to A4 paper, a note outlining the future of the family’s affairs, sent on October 23, 2020, concluded with the promise: “We will look after Auriol.”

“My mind is at rest,” Verna, now 86, wrote back in spidery handwriting. For decades she had tried to ensure the best for her youngest daughter, who has cerebral palsy and a wasted right arm, is partially blind, walks with a splint and has “cognitive difficulties”.

She is now also a prisoner at HMP Peterborough.

Unbeknown to the family, just three days before Luxmoore sent his letter, his sister-in-law had found herself in a Cambridgeshire police station being questioned on suspicion of manslaughter.

This month she was jailed for three years for causing the death of Celia Ward, 77, in an incident that has seen her dubbed “the pavement killer” and sparked fierce debate about the competing rights of pedestrians and cyclists.

The five seconds that have destroyed three families were captured on CCTV. Grey, walking on a path in Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, ordered Ward, who was cycling towards her, to “get off the f***ing pavement”.

She then, to quote the judge, made a “lateral sweeping movement” with her left arm, causing the pensioner to fall into the road, where she was run over and killed by a passing car. It has not been ascertained whether Grey’s hand made contact with the cyclist but a jury — following a retrial; the first was unable to reach a verdict — rejected the claim that the chain of events constituted an accident or self-defence.

The devastating effect on the Ward family can in no way be diminished. Celia’s husband, David, a retired RAF pilot, told the court that “rarely a day goes by without thinking of her and our happy life together”, The driver of the car, Carla Money, has also been gravely affected. She said the incident led to the break-up of her marriage and left her with PTSD. Her son, then aged two, was in the car at the time.

Yet according to Grey’s family, the stark footage does not tell the whole story. Last week, her legal team filed an appeal against her sentence. Her barrister, Miranda Moore KC, now working pro bono, believes Judge Sean Enright did not adequately take into account Grey’s mental state, dismissing during his closing remarks at Peterborough crown court any mental disorder or learning difficulties.

Moore points out that Grey was supported by an appropriate adult during her police interview, indicating officers recognised her vulnerabilities at an early stage.

Grey’s family have also questioned why the judge found that the pathway was shared between cyclists and pedestrians. There is no signage on the stretch of pavement in question and Cambridgeshire county council has admitted it “cannot categorically say it is a shared-use path”.

Grey is certainly nobody’s idea of a convicted killer. Educated at a convent boarding school, the bespectacled 49-year-old grew up with her mother Verna, sister Genny and late father Gordon in a flat in the dilapidated Tudor wing of Hunstanton Hall, a stately home on the north Norfolk coast.

“I can remember very clearly the day when Auriol was born because Genny and I were having a riding lesson together and her dad turned up to collect her. My mum asked if everything was all right. She knew Genny’s mum was in hospital having the baby and Genny’s dad looked awful. He just said, “No, not really”. And that was the start of a terrible time for the family.”

Grey was born with her umbilical cord wrapped around her neck and was starved of oxygen, resulting in brain injuries. These led to fits that became so severe she underwent a number of brain operations at John Radcliffe Hospital in Oxford. She was left “unable to comprehend difficult or complex situations”, according to Alisdair Luxmoore. Others described her as “childlike”.

Luxmoore met Genny when he was 19 and studying natural sciences at Cambridge. She was studying history. The pair began dating and he would visit her childhood home and see Grey, who was seven years younger than her sister. She was “happy to be in company, but ideally without contributing verbally or physically”, he said last week, in his first interview.

Her hobbies included visiting a horseriding activity centre for disabled people. In her late twenties, as Genny began a career as a solicitor, Grey moved into accommodation arranged by the disability charity the Papworth Trust, which resembled a “nursing home”, according to Luxmoore.

She had her own bedroom and there was a communal lounge. But about 20 years ago, the family were informed she would be moving into her own adapted flat, also arranged by the charity, where she could live alone. “Genny and I couldn’t believe it. We were surprised and a bit worried it might be a step too far,” Luxmoore said.

Despite her physical and cognitive difficulties, Grey began to enjoy her independence. But she so fiercely guarded her new life that she often rejected visits from family members because she struggled with disruption to her daily routine.

As the years passed, she saw her sister less often, but they spoke on the phone. It was no coincidence that Genny became a volunteer and trustee for the cerebral palsy charity Small Steps.

Then, in August 2020, Genny was diagnosed with ovarian cancer — having struggled to get a doctor’s appointment as the pandemic raged — and died just three weeks later, on September 17. She was 53.

Grey was driven to Devon for three days for a 12-person Covid-compliant funeral service held by the coast. Lifelong difficulties, which were soon to change her life, were quickly apparent to other family members.

During a walk on the beach with her niece, Ellie, now 23, she struggled to maintain her balance because of the brace on her leg. She also became scared by the wind buffeting the marquee holding the mourners. “Anything outside of her comfort zone she finds super-distressing,” Luxmoore said. “She couldn’t move very quickly when she was on unfamiliar ground.”

Perhaps more poignantly, she “didn’t really show any emotion” at the death of her sister. Ellie said: “I found it a bit distressing. It was slightly difficult, but that’s her.”

The family point out that at her sentencing hearing last month, Judge Enright criticised Grey’s lack of remorse. “She has an inability to show emotion,” Luxmoore said. “That is one of her difficulties. I wish we had been there to help her explain her feelings.”

Grey encountered Ward on the pavement in Huntingdon a little over three weeks after Genny’s funeral. Luxmoore believes her mental state so shortly after her only sibling’s death was not taken into account.

Yet remaining family members — Luxmoore and his daughters, as well as Verna — were not able to provide any assistance: Grey didn’t tell the police she had any living relatives.

The first Luxmoore heard of his sister-in-law’s plight was when a tabloid journalist knocked at the door of his Victorian terraced home in Chiswick, west London, this month for comment on the unfolding story.

“We were horrified,” he said. “Not just for Auriol, but clearly we were desperately sorry for the Wards. It was a frightening parallel to what we went through just a few weeks before them. How awful that Auriol played any role at all. Then there was the horror at the thought of her being sent to where she is now [prison]. How can you put a disabled person in a place like that?”

Luxmoore then had to break the news to Verna. “The last time I had been to her house was to tell her her daughter had died,” he said. “Then I had to try and relay this to her. She couldn’t take it on board.”

On the seconds that led to Ward’s death, he said: “I can’t believe there was any intent whatsoever. It was a tragic accident. Auriol reacted in the only way she knew how — to panic.”

Now, though, Luxmoore, a travel company director, is in the loop and backing Grey’s appeal.

One of the key issues Judge Enright considered in sentencing was Grey’s anger towards the cyclist riding on the pavement. He said Grey was “territorial about the pavement” and “resented the cyclist being there”. He concluded that her actions that day “are not explained by your disabilities”. But one of the key elements of the appeal will concern whether cyclists were permitted on the pathway and whether Judge Enright was right to conclude that it “was, I think, a shared path for cyclists and pedestrians that allowed them to go around the busy ring road”.

Opening the case, Simon Spence KC, prosecuting, told the court the footpath was “shared cycle and pedestrian access”. However, police later confirmed they could not “categorically” state it was a shared cycleway. Department for Transport guidance says shared paths should be at least three metres wide. The path on Nursery Road where the incident took place is 2.4 metres wide.

A Cambridgeshire county council spokesman said there were no legal records to show it was a shared path. It remains an offence under section 72 of the Highway Act 1835 to cycle on the pavement but enforcement is at the discretion of police, who can issue fixed-penalty notices. Ward was described in court as an “experienced and competent cyclist” but regularly cycled on pathways because of difficulties with her hearing.

Confusion over the legal rights of pedestrians and cyclists on pathways is mirrored in hundreds of towns and cities across the country, often leading to bitter clashes in person and on social media.

Luxmoore said: “A cyclist on the pavement is like a red rag to a bull to [Grey]. That is her sense of right and wrong.”

Cambridgeshire is now reviewing the markings on its pathways.

When The Sunday Times visited the scene last week, there were no signs or road paint in the relevant area to suggest it was a shared pedestrian and cycle path. And the majority of pedestrians — and even some cyclists — were baffled by the idea that it could be called a shared path.

To further complicate matters, Grey’s friend Roman Ramsay, 79, who saw her every morning when she delivered his newspaper on her daily walk, said she would often stay close to the kerb on her left because she could not see on her right-hand side. This would have meant Ward was obstructing her line of vision. He added that, when the pair walked together, they would link their little fingers to help each other balance.

After the incident, Grey remained at the scene until she was ushered away by a bystander and continued with her day, fetching her prescription and buying groceries at Sainsbury’s.

Police picked up on this in her interview and suggested it showed lack of remorse.

Judge Enright said in sentencing: “Both experts suggested that the childhood surgery resulted in ‘a degree of cognitive impairment’. In my view, these difficulties do not bear on your understanding of what is right and wrong and what is appropriate or not.”

But Luxmoore said: “It’s no surprise. That’s all she knows. She finds comfort in her routine.”

Moore is looking at a range of issues for the basis of the appeal. She said: “One witness who the judge said was ‘reliable and thoughtful’ said the cyclist should not have been on the pavement. However, the judge found as fact that it was a shared cycle path.

“The police also claimed it was shared but couldn’t show any evidence that it was. The judge said [Grey’s] visual impairment was not a factor in her offending. He said there was no mental health issue or learning difficulty. He basically treated her as if she was able-bodied. There were physical and cognitive difficulties which the judge effectively ignored. The onus was put on her to get out of the way of the cyclist.”

Ramsay spoke to Grey on Friday morning — her first contact with anyone outside the prison since her sentencing. Grey told him she was no longer on a hospital wing but with the general prison population and feeling cheerful after having a haircut.

He said she had asked a warden whether she could go home. She is now said to be aware of her predicament.

“In her mind she thinks something totally different, like it’s a hotel,” he said. “She does live in a different world sometimes.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/known-as-the-pavement-killer-our-auriol-should-not-be-in-jail-for-cyclist-death-tgwgvzjxv