Israel -Hamas

[jungle]

Really surprised that Israel's intelligence services were caught out so badly
This appears to be well organized and determined  , nothing like anything before
I'm sure the IDF will get things back under contol eventually
Also just as  sure  the retribution by the IDF on Gaza will be swift and severe israil usally take at least 10 for 1 .Can  imagine they will turn the West back inside out as well as bringing in more restrictions
And all this will just feed the cycle sadly

[Roger]

Good post Jungle - its a frightening mess and this cycle is likely to be never ending.

Problems in region Kosovo bubbling too.

No end in sight in Ukraine. It's despairing stuff.

Thank God for LoS eh ? ATB

[Coolkorat]

Very sad to see a small number of people in the streets of the UK 'celebrating'. Complete idiots.

[Tiggs]

Thanks jungle
No end in sight indeed roger, as for the UK CK
people are just going bannanas, as they say. Clip UK below.

Protests Rock London In Support of Palestine As Israel Steps Up Offensive In Gaza
9 hours ago
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKX-fqjyAvE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKX-fqjyAvE</a>

[jungle]

Tiggs I can understand those that are marching over concerns for the Palestinians caught in Gaza there's going to be alot of  innocent civilians killed
But for anyone supporting Hamas from now on ,is  backing  a terrorist organization
What they did is = to  ISIS they are finished as a political entity
Can't see how Israel can alow them runing a state on their border they have no choice
I've no doubts there are many Palestinians in Gaza that want them gone as well
(I believe it's been 17 years since  elections were held there )
Thinking after this Netanyahu will have some serious questions to answer

Read one article ( don't know the accuracy of it) that reported much of the active army  stationed near Gaza were moved to the west Bank to support settlers and  new admin policy's
This all following on from the recent new coalition being formed
Below is an article I read a few months ago about Israel's new National Security Minister
It's an eye opener and i think maybe very relevant to whats happened

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/02/27/itamar-ben-gvir-israels-minister-of-chaos

[Coolkorat]

This is a well-planned provocation. The UK press seem obsessed with trying to get ministers to condemn any potential humanitarian consequences of actions by Israel, but it is almost impossible to see how more death will be avoided - hamas will use as many human shields, both Palestinian and hostages, as they can. There will be nothing but death and destruction in Gaza. The extremists on both sides deserve to burn in hell for what they do.

[Roger]

Suella Braverman took some stick over her recent assertion that 'multi-culturalism' had failed in the UK - here's some food for thought on that - deeply moving from Alison Pearson in the DT :-

"The horror in Israel has put the failure of Western multiculturalism on shocking display. Civilisation is at a crossroads: one way, there are deluded progressives cheering on mass murderers – the other, everything we hold dear.

It was a dismaying sight, repellent in its callousness. A young Jewish woman I know attempted to reach the embassy to show her solidarity, but she was terrified and driven away. Guidance from the Metropolitan Police on this matter was so bland it amounted to a surrender IOU. “We are engaging with protesters in Kensington High Street  We encourage those taking part to do so safely and responsibly,” burbled our capital’s police force, “Do not put yourself or others at risk of injury by climbing street furniture or buildings. Officers will take action if any criminal activity occurs.”

Well, as Hamas is a proscribed organisation under the Terror Act 2000, and it is a criminal offence to support them, the coppers should have been busy making hundreds of arrests, but they largely hung back. (Personally, I’d have the offenders deported immediately to Gaza where some of the progressive, purple-haired student element could entertain Hamas with their LGBTQ ideas: see how that goes down with their Stone Age heroes). . . .

. . . . I think we know which of those threats to public order the vast majority of us are concerned about, but the law is increasingly a politicised affair. After all, the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, has a Muslim constituency to keep sweet for the forthcoming election. When Suella Braverman claimed recently that multiculturalism has failed “because it allowed people to come to our society and live parallel lives in it… And, in extreme cases, they could pursue lives aimed at undermining the stability and threatening the security of society,” she was heavily criticised.

She was right, though, wasn’t she? Since the invasion of Israel, the failure of multiculturalism has been on shameless and shocking display in Western capitals."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2023/10/10/allison-pearson-hamas-massacre-israel-britain-jewish/

Chatting briefly to my Australian Friend, John, last morning, he quietly observed that Jews in Sydney had been advised to stay indoors, reminiscent of Nazi Germany. The DT reported in the article above, "In Sydney, Hamas sympathisers chillingly chanted, “Gas the Jews!” " OMG

[Tiggs]

That's appalling news roger, living in the modern age of 2023. Hatred in the world seems to be increasing,
Hamas seized about 150 people in its attack, and has said it will kill them one by one if Israel continues to hit Gaza with airstrikes.

‘I just want my son’: families of Thai workers in Israel face painful wait for news
Thai government says it believes 11 of its nationals have been taken hostage by Hamas, and 18 killed

There was no answer when Kanjana Patee’s family called her brother’s phone on Sunday, the morning after Hamas’s attack on Israel. Each time that they have tried to ring since, the line has been completely dead. “It’s so hard for us not to know – did he get captured, did he run away, what happened to him?” says Kanjana.

Many in Thailand are, like Kanjana, desperately waiting for news of loved ones who remain missing in Israel. Thailand is one of the biggest sources of migrant workers to the country, and the Thai government has said it believes 11 of its nationals are among those taken hostage, and that 18 were killed.

Kanjana’s older brother Kiattisak Patee, 35, moved to Israel four-and-a-half years ago and has been working on a chicken farm. “He wanted to earn more money for his family and to relieve the debt of the family,” Kanjana told the Guardian.

He was working on a five-year contract, with just six months left before his scheduled return home. This weekend, his name appeared on a list shared online and in Thai media, which claimed to detail Thai nationals who had been taken hostage during the violence.

Kanjana has spent the past few days desperately messaging other workers on Facebook, asking for any information they might have about her older brother. She has been unable to confirm what has happened to him.

Many are enduring the same painful wait. Some have spotted their loved ones in images, apparently of hostages, shared online, which show men sitting with their hands tied behind their back, some with their heads bowed and others looking, terrified, into the camera.

Porntip Chombua, whose son Komgrit Chombua, 29, is missing, told the local broadcaster Thai PBS she had seen her son in a photograph that appeared to show those taken. “I couldn’t say a word. The only thing I ask is for my son to be safe.”

In a message to her son, she said: “I miss you. I miss you so much. I hope you are safe. My heart is with you. I hope you’re safe.”

Full story https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/10/i-just-want-my-son-families-of-thai-workers-in-israel-face-painful-wait-for-news

[jungle]

CK you’re right the Government is in an ugly spot
Israel has to go in and try to clear Hamas out
The UK government can’t really say anything against that
And It’s only going to get worse in the coming weeks
It’s bizarre that governments will have to accept the death of more innocent people but can’t come out and say it
Governments will just have to sit it out
Maybe after this give Gaza back to Fatah again to control ,better  to have just one group to negotiate with and Fatah is moderate and secular a +
May be some constructive talks can begin?
Crazy seeing people’s supporting Hamas in the streets ,though hopefully just a small fraction ,what can you do free speech and all ??

Roger I think there is some over reaction on the multicultural front some crazy protesters and it’s the end of civilization?
My thoughts are this is being blown out of proportion and clam heads are needed to see us through this
And it’s going to get worse we’ve all seen the 100s of innocent people Hamas has slaughtered and now next there will be the sadly UNAVOIDABLE slaughter of Palestinians as Israel secures Gaza
I see Suella Braverman  has now said that waving the Palestinian flag and pro Arab chants and songs may be a criminal offense and has sent letters to police asking them to clamp down on such . Party of free speech 555555555
Also HS Braverman claiming there MAYBE groups that COULD undermine the security and stability of our society
She’s scare mongering either she puts up or shuts up
Once again just bloody irresponsible for someone in her position to dabble in this BS rage baiting getting people all excited over something very serious that probably isn’t happening just not something a minister should dabble in
I’m sorry Roger I just see this women as an opportunist, populist and not a bright one 
We all got through the ISIS attacks and Islam never took over the west

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/10/people-supporting-hamas-in-uk-will-be-held-to-account-says-rishi-sunak

 The story at the Sydney opera house was shocking but apparently the organizers have condemned the actions of a small minority at the protest who did the chanting
So hopefully civilization hasn’t fallen just yet :0)

https://www.aap.com.au/news/pro-palestine-protest-organiser-deplored-jewish-slurs/

It’s incredible the Palestinian conflict has been going on over 100 years now
Many nations have become involved not the least the UK
Will it ever end ?
 

[Roger]

Jungle did you see the video in Tiggs reply 4 ?

I noticed the HS comments which IMO should have been restricted to support for Hamas.

Reverting to Alison Pearson's piece I quoted earlier, I agree very much with this - "Well, as Hamas is a proscribed organisation under the Terror Act 2000, and it is a criminal offence to support them, the coppers should have been busy making hundreds of arrests, but they largely hung back. (Personally, I’d have the offenders deported immediately to Gaza where some of the progressive, purple-haired student element could entertain Hamas with their LGBTQ ideas: see how that goes down with their Stone Age heroes)".

Tiggs - thanks. Yes there's thousands of these tragic situations and every one is a heartbreak. It's all terrible but one has to feel for what Gaza is going through atm.

[caller]

I see Suella Braverman  has now said that waving the Palestinian flag and pro Arab chants and songs may be a criminal offense and has sent letters to police asking them to clamp down on such . Party of free speech 555555555

She does have a point. There are laws proscribing what is and isn't lawful and she is right to ensure that anyone breaking the law is dealt with.  However, there is also a fine balancing act between the Police grabbbing one particularly persistent and obnoxious offender, and then causing a riot by doing  so. So the Police have to tread carefully and weigh up various pro's and cons.

I suspect the Police / security services will be aware of who is actually attending such protests and I guess, if appropriate, they  could be picked up a later date to answer any transgressions. From the footage I did see, there didn't seem too many.

In the meantime racial attacks against jews have increased three fold.

[jungle]

Roger yep seen Tiggs video tbh I didn’t see anything untoward happening
Good to see your on the verge of recognizing the HS as incompetent at least :0)
Like I said I think calm heads are beaded when emotions are running high and the police are doing well
If they started arresting everyone saying things in support of Hamas things could have gotten out of hand
Personally I didn’t see ant purple haired students in the protest and I don’t understand the reference to LGBTQ  was there a large contingent of those types in the protest ?

Hi caller I agree the police are doing a fine balancing act and as allways doing it well they are the most professional force on the planet
Regards Suella I would like to see where it’s stated that carrying the Palestinian in public is breaking any law
Christ the Israelis under the new right wing coalition have just stared banning the flag which is meet with protest
Can anyone imagine the scenes with the police wading in to a protest to take Palestinian flags in any British  city ?
Seriously  HS Braverman is the threat to national security and stability how could she even think that let alone voice it

[jungle]

 Caller  Haven’t seen the report of increased attacks on Jews
I would hope the police are pro active in protecting the Jewish community
Any attacks against Jews in the UK can’t be tolerated

[Roger]

Jungle you are a fanatic . . .

You say - "Good to see your on the verge of recognizing the HS as incompetent at least".

You infer that but my position is not as you describe - I observed what I thought was a mistake. We all make them . . . .

You carry on your campaign and I'll just try to say what I think - and do not wish to be excused by alleged SOH lapsings. (I do have SOH but not for excusing something when I get it wrong).

Moving on - it is MO that people demonstrating for terrorist organisations in the UK should be arrested even if it is difficult. In defence of, in this case, the Jews. The UK has defined Hamas as a 'T' organisation so FGS, why can't the Police stand up to them ? Go Suella . . . .

[Roger]

And Jungle - just noticed this and could hardly believe my eyes 

"Hi Caller I agree the police are doing a fine balancing act and as always doing it well they are the most professional force on the planet."

Is your head in the sand on this too ?

Do you not read the news ? The UK Police is as disfunctional as a Police Force can get.

An incredible statement . . . .    Worthy of your 'bollocks' award   

[jungle]

Roger i stand by what I’ve said  the HS  has made statements without backing them up or showing evidence
Just politicking (election coming)and even worse scare mongering 

Multiculturalism has failed ,ok then ,how and when and what’s it mean ?

There MAYBE groups that COULD undermine our security and stability of the nation
MAY and COULD no evidence just a possibility?

It’s irresponsible  to instill fear in the population !
Also irresponsible to suggest that the Palestinian flag should be banned in public
That won’t help calm things to not think that through is incompetent for a HS

Yep I read the news just not the telegraph and tabloids that much :0)
British police force ,yea maybe I was a tad OTT :0).but still they do handle protests and public disturbances well though
Apart from that Thailand better ? The states ?
If there is a problem with the police maybe some government ministry could deal with it :0/ 555

[caller]

Regards Suella I would like to see where it’s stated that carrying the Palestinian in public is breaking any law

I don't think it is. But if modified with hate speech, then that is an offence. Supporting a proscribed terrorist organisation is an offence. But I am not sure of the definition of 'support' and I don't have enough interest to look it up. But I am sure that just carrying a palestinian (not Hamas) flag is not an offence. 

I am very surprised you have not read of any reports of discrimination against jews increasing. It's all over the news. Even on the beebs live coverage on Israel. I just read of a jewish restaurant vandalised as well as slogans being painted. It's worth remembering that the Jewish community in the UK is tiny, just over 300,000. Maybe if not from London, or being familiar with traditional Jewish locations, you wouldn't realise how many of that number are located in a very small physical area.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67085625

[jungle]

Thanks for the link caller I've now come across a few more I hope the police can keep a lid on it ugly times
Seen many videos of uk protests , lots. of Palestinian flags but no Hamas ones
 Agree with your thoughts on using hate speach laws I can see the police steeping in if there's like intimidation in Jewish areas
But can't see the flag being all that relevant

Have been seeing lots of clips of planes loaded with young Israelis returng home for mobilization
Quite surprised by the numbers really
As Gaza is only 5x2 miles in size
May be bigger concerns?

[Roger]

Hi Jungle - actually the Gaza strip is 25 miles long and 4-8 miles wide down its length, (41km x 6-12km). At  just 141 square miles, it's 2 million plus people 'live' in one of the most densely populated Countries there is !

IMO this is worth a watch if you have time. It's Ben Shapiro, a long time advocate in Jewish matters. He is undoubtedly a brilliant Guy but I haven't watched him for a very long time - in this conversation with Piers Morgan, (normally a pet hate of mine), he speaks with obvious conviction and expertise.

https://youtu.be/ZfNbxVa3YLo

And in this https://youtu.be/xAs5EOBUDcs the dreaded Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart, (neither of whom I usually follow), there's a great deal of sense talked and the question of the 'future' is addressed.

I've been trying to understand better, what is going on. Way to go LOL

[jungle]

Oops yes got that wrong my mistake
Was thinking about watching that but like you Piers ..mmmmm and Ben can talk bullocks..at speed I may add :0)
Might just listen to it but Ben is quite anti Palestinian and pro settlers