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UK pension increases for Thailand ?

Roger · 14 · 1591

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Online Roger

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Brits might want to add their vote to this petition  :)

"Brits here miss out on the annual increase to the O A Pension. Why should we not get equal rights? Pensioners living abroad are less of a strain on the National Health (not using the services of G.Ps., emergency services etc.), in most cases having to fund health care including care homes privately.

Not receiving Winter Fuel Payment, not receiving discounted travel on public transport. Yet we are still penalized! It is only fair that the Government treats all its citizens on an equal basis! There is now a petition running on a government site and currently, they had close to 9,000 signatures. With 10,000 the government must respond. Reach 100,000 and the petition will be considered for debate in Parliament
."

 https://aseannow.com/topic/1254591-no-increase-for-thai-based-uk-pensioners-vote-here-to-get-this-changed/
« Last Edit: March 26, 2022, 06:44:01 AM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline rdrokit

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What is the reason for not giving increases to UK expats? I have been collecting my US government pension for about 12 years now while living in Thailand and it has increased about 20,000 baht due to cost of living increases each year.


Online Pompui

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Take your pick

Because they can
Because they're tight *****
Because there is less chance of us turning up on their doorstep protesting
Because it won't affect them. If any of them do retire overseas, they will have so much money in the bank that the pension won't matter.
Because we are not spending our pension in the UK and therefore not lining their pockets with VAT.
Because they want more parties in Downing Street

If anyone reading this are members of other forums then please mention this on them.

Is it worth sending it to Thaiger?
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Online Roger

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Pompui - nice one  ;)

RDRO - "The policy on uprating UK state pensions for overseas residents is that the annual index-linked increases are paid outside the UK where there is a legal requirement to do so. Examples of this are where UK State Pension recipients are living within the European Economic Area or where there is a reciprocal agreement between the UK and the host country that provides for uprating of the UK State Pension.

Around 510,000 recipients of the UK State Pension living overseas do not get State Pension increases – 84% of those live in Australia, Canada and New Zealand
."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/estimated-costs-of-uprating-state-pension-in-frozen-rate-countries/estimated-costs-of-uprating-state-pension-in-frozen-rate-countries

I guess that's the answer. In the link they estimate the cost of correcting this gross injustice at GBP630 million in 2022/23.  8) 

(I still pay tax in the UK btw). Pay up you tight sods !!
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline rdrokit

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Pompui - nice one  ;)

RDRO - "The policy on uprating UK state pensions for overseas residents is that the annual index-linked increases are paid outside the UK where there is a legal requirement to do so. Examples of this are where UK State Pension recipients are living within the European Economic Area or where there is a reciprocal agreement between the UK and the host country that provides for uprating of the UK State Pension.

Around 510,000 recipients of the UK State Pension living overseas do not get State Pension increases – 84% of those live in Australia, Canada and New Zealand
."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/estimated-costs-of-uprating-state-pension-in-frozen-rate-countries/estimated-costs-of-uprating-state-pension-in-frozen-rate-countries

I guess that's the answer. In the link they estimate the cost of correcting this gross injustice at GBP630 million in 2022/23.  8) 

(I still pay tax in the UK btw). Pay up you tight sods !!
Thanks for the explanation Roger.



Online Hector

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Jivvy, thank you for an interesting (sort of) link, but there's nothing new here and I doubt you or I will see any change to this iniquitous and unfair policy in our lifetimes.


Online Pompui

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Hector, you are right, no change. I received this email today.



The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Give U.K. pensioners living abroad increases with parity as those in the U.K.”.

Government responded:

    There are no plans to change the policy. The Government continues to up-rate the State Pension where there is a legal requirement to do so.

    The UK Government has no plans to change the current arrangements for payment of UK State Pension overseas.

    The United Kingdom’s state pension system is primarily designed for the benefit of those who are resident in the UK. It is, however, payable worldwide and is uprated in the UK and also in countries abroad where there is a legal requirement to do so. This is a longstanding policy and has been implemented by successive Governments of all political persuasions for over 70 years. The policy has been the subject of Parliamentary debates over time and has been approved by Parliament and the Courts.

    The rate of National Insurance contributions paid has never earned entitlement to the uprating of pensions payable abroad. This reflects the fact that the UK scheme is primarily designed for those living in the UK. The National Insurance scheme operates on a “pay-as-you-go” basis. Contributions paid into the National Insurance Fund in any year finance contributory benefit expenditure in the same year. A person’s contributions provide a foundation for calculating their future benefit entitlement but do not actually pay for those benefits.

    UK expenditure on health care costs depends on where the UK pensioner settles. While the location may be decided by the pensioner, individual countries have their own immigration policies in relation to older economically inactive people. Paying uprating to UK pension recipients in countries where it is not currently paid would mean an immediate increase in costs.

    There are now around 1.2 million UK State Pension recipients who are overseas residents and around 0.5 million of them do not receive increases. It would cost over £0.6bn extra a year to up-rate these pensions fully, that is to pay the pension at the rate that would be applicable if the pensioner had lived in the UK throughout. Paying future increases only would cost tens of millions in the short term but would lead to the cost of full uprating (£0.6bn) in the longer term as older pensioners died and new pensioners became entitled to fully up-rated state pensions.

    Cost has always been a factor in deciding whether pension increases should be paid in overseas countries and successive governments have taken the view that it would be unfair to impose an additional burden on contributors and taxpayers in the UK to fund increased pensions for those who have chosen to live abroad. The Government concurs with that position. Ultimately, there is a choice for the individual to make where to live, and what the consequences are should that choice be somewhere other than the UK. The rules on uprating the State Pension are clear and well publicised. So the choice to migrate or not remains a choice for the individual. UK State Pensions paid to people living outside the UK also go to people who migrated for economic or other reasons well before they reached pension age.

    Department for Work and Pensions

Click this link to view the response online:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/601821?reveal_response=yes

The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.

The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: https://petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament
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Online Hector

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Thanks for that Pompui!  As expected, alas!  One could pick loads of holes in this governmental bureaucratic answer, which indicates that it is the thought of spending the 0.6 Bn quid a year they have been saving by some of their pensioners who have chosen to live abroad......  I won't go on, but these petitions are dead in the water before they ever reach a Committee stage because of this mindset.  That is, however, not to say that the government shouldn't continue to the pressed on the matter.


Online Roger

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It's good to see some MP's are supporting 'End Frozen Pensions' but it's hard to believe Govt. largesse will stretch to this - (but it's OK to waste billions if it suits - as Baroness Mone can testify).
 
"Some pensioners living abroad will not see their state pension payments increase in line with inflation. The government has been urged to bring a halt to an "unfair postcode lottery" that means almost 500,000 Britons living abroad have had their state pension frozen. Under the pensions triple lock, UK pensions rise annually by either inflation, 2.5% or average wage growth, whichever is highest.

Inflation was 10.1% in the qualifying month of 2022/2023, meaning most state pensions will see a large increase. The pensions of British citizens living in countries such as Australia and Canada are frozen at the level they were at when they left the UK. However, 492,000 Britons overseas miss out on annual state pension rises. The pensions of those in countries such as Australia and Canada are frozen at the level they were at when they left the UK.

Dozens of MPs have now backed a campaign group's call to end the policy. On Monday, SNP MP Dave Doogan tweeted: "Half a million people have had their pensions frozen because they live in countries without an annual uprating agreement with the UK. "The UK government must end frozen pensions and ensure people get the uprated pensions they deserve." Campaign group End Frozen Pensions has written to the government to end the policy.

The group says: "We are writing to urge you to end the injustice felt by half a million British pensioners living overseas, excluded from annual state pension uprating by the UK government's frozen pensions policy simply because they live in the 'wrong' country." The campaign group pointed out that pensioners in countries with agreements, such as the US, do receive fully uprated pensions, but those in countries such as Australia, Canada and parts of the Caribbean, do not.

An estimated 48 Commonwealth countries are excluded, End Frozen Pensions said. The Canadian government has previously requested making a deal with the UK to solve the problem for some 127,000 British pensioners living there, but a resolution has not been found. End Frozen Pensions said: "This unfair postcode lottery has to stop - we believe that all UK pensioners deserve their full state pension no matter where they happen to live and urge you to end this longstanding injustice." Campaigners and pensioners staged a protest outside the department for work and pensions in London last week.

Caroline Abrahams, charity director at Age UK, said: “It seems very unfair that ex-pats who live in certain countries outside of the UK and EU miss out on having their state pension uprated each year. "Over time this means they can be deprived of tens of thousands of pounds that really should be theirs, leaving some in dire financial straits. It’s high time this long-standing injustice was remedied for every older UK citizen who chooses to live in another country in retirement. "Every one of these pensioners has already spent years paying into the system through National Insurance contributions or credits and deserves to receive the same income boost as everyone else, regardless of where they live.”

A Department for Work and Pensions spokesperson said: “We understand that people move abroad for many reasons and that this can impact on their finances. There is information on gov.uk about what the effect of going abroad will be on entitlement to the UK state pension. “The government’s policy on the uprating of the UK state pension for recipients living overseas is a longstanding one of more than 70 years and we continue to uprate state pensions overseas where there is a legal requirement to do so
.” "

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/unfair-postcode-lottery-anger-over-500000-british-pensioners-missing-out-on-triple-lock-162441549.html
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online jivvy

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Better off going back to the UK in an inflatable!!!
Be treated like royalty and have money thrown at us left , right and centre.
One should never do wrong in return, nor mistreat any man, no matter how one has been mistreated by him.”
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Online Teessider

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Do you really think that happens Jivvy? Reality is endless detention in a hell hole like Manston.
Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.
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Online jivvy

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Do you really think that happens Jivvy? Reality is endless detention in a hell hole like Manston.

The government seem to treat immigrants better than many pensioners, especially us expats with frozen pensions.
It was a tongue in cheek comment originally but the more I think about it the more factual it becomes.
I think I read that Manston has been emptied and many rehoused in hotels.
One should never do wrong in return, nor mistreat any man, no matter how one has been mistreated by him.”
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Online Roger

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Immigrants last year 1 million ? Including foreign students returning after the pandemic, Hong Kong leavers and Ukraine refugees. And channel hoppers. We need another Bristol and at least 3 Swindons to house them each year. And is that twice the population of Cornwall?

Sheer madness. And they keep woke calling it 'migration'. It's effing immigration. Drives me crackers  ::)
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein