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In Britain these days . . . .

Roger · 93 · 14714

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Online Roger

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Caller thanks for posting - that must be the longest post ever on K-F  ???  and worth the whole read IMO.

For me this is crucial - "Opening the case, Simon Spence KC, prosecuting, told the court the footpath was “shared cycle and pedestrian access”. However, police later confirmed they could not “categorically” state it was a shared cycleway. Department for Transport guidance says shared paths should be at least three metres wide. The path on Nursery Road where the incident took place is 2.4 metres wide.

A Cambridgeshire county council spokesman said there were no legal records to show it was a shared path. It remains an offence under section 72 of the Highway Act 1835 to cycle on the pavement . . "

The convicted Ms. Grey also had left based vision sense and the deceased Ms. Ward was deaf - it seems like 'an accident waiting to happen'. 

Mind you I'm not sure how being deaf creates the need to ride on the pavement ? Whilst as a cyclist it's good to know that something is approaching from behind (and if you are deaf, that awareness is restricted), but if you want to live, you have to cycle tucked in WELL TO THE LEFT on the road ANYWAY.

I'd restate the point that, as an elderly cyclist of that age, I might have intruded on the pavement myself in those conditions. BUT when approaching ANY pedestrian, I would have had fingers on brake levers and be moving so very slowly that I could stop almost instantly, in deference to any pedestrian.

I think Ms. Grey has been harshly and unfairly treated.

*******************

A separate point, but relevant. In Britain today, the culture of 'health and safety' and 'blame' is such, that it seems there is no longer anything that is simply an accident. Someone is always to blame.

Thanks again Caller
« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 07:09:25 AM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Hector

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"I think Ms. Grey has been harshly and unfairly treated."
I agree 100%.  Your last point, Roger, reminds me of Lord Denning's assertion, when he was Master of the Rolls, that "in legal terms there is no such thing as an accident."
IMO the Judge in this case was wrong.


Online caller

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What I struggle with is why no family members were contacted. It doesn't matter that the defendent didn't give any information about them. The Police were able to find out about her medical background, Doctors who clearly had access to her records gave their opinion, which were then ignored by the judge, as is his prerogative, if justified. So knowing she was vulnerable, knowing her background, why weren't the family contacted? I am sure that had their knowledge been taken into account, as surely the Doctors would have liaised with them, then the judge might have reached a different conclusion. And what of her carers, were they spoken with? Did they not have to still check on her to make sure she was okay?

It also appears the CPS and Judge have accepted the evidence that it was a shared pathway, when it clearly wasn't. I would be interested in knowing what was produced in support of such a claim, as it's simply not enough for the Police or whoever, to simply say so. Somebody has to produce the evidence that it is, in Court. So you would expect a statement from perhaps a Council official with supporting documentary evidence.


Online Roger

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After a decade (?) of low interest rates and quantitative easing, with inflated stock markets and astronomic house prices and rents, comments from Andrew Bailey at the Bank of England seem increasingly odd to me.

After recently appealing to workers to moderate their pay claims, (MMmmm is he in a dreamworld there?), Bailey is now suggesting that Companies should NOT put their prices up, (in a dreamworld again) - in current circumstances, in many cases Companies are forced to put their prices up to survive at all. And now it's early retirement to blame apparently.

Being one of those responsible for the problems we now face, he now has all the answers apparently.

I'd like to see the Politicians treading on this very dangerous ground a little more.

In short, to improve the UK economy, The PM needs to repeatedly bang the drum for greater efficiency, productivity, working harder and develop the indigestible truths that the UK has been living above it's means for decades on borrowed money. Inevitably, in the course of correcting that, we have to accept that there will be a lower standard of living in some ways, until matters improve. And that's horrific to contemplate because decades of crimes of inequality mean that so many are on the breadline anyway. Bang that drum Rishi  ;D

I found this well worth the watch https://youtu.be/EpMLAQbSYAw
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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No wonder UK taxes are high !!

"Ministers have been accused of wasting taxpayer money on a “profligate” benefits system as it emerged people who say they are immobilised by anxiety or depression can claim £40,000 cars on benefits. Those with a mental health condition deemed serious enough to severely restrict their mobility can also get insurance for up to three drivers and breakdown, servicing and MOT cover as part of a “worry-free” package covered by the taxpayer. . . .

. . . A 2020 survey of more than 1,000 people who had claimed or tried to claim the PIP mobility allowance on mental health grounds found that nearly a third of those who cited anxiety as their primary condition were granted the enhanced rate, which would make them eligible for the car scheme.

For depression, the figure was 22%, rising to 30% for bipolar disorder, 38% for personality disorder, 41% for post-traumatic stress disorder, and 43% for autistic spectrum disorder, according to the poll conducted by independent advice company Benefits and Work.

The Motability scheme comes with insurance cover for up to three named drivers, regular services and routine repairs, breakdown cover, and access to a charge point for electric cars. One of the cars on offer is an Alfa Romeo Tonale, currently selling for about £40,000
."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/07/benefits-mobility-scheme-mental-health-cars-worth-40k/?
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online jungle

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Good God Roger that's  shocking news
I really i find this all very depressing
So where can one apply  for these benefits ?
Asking for a friend :0) 


Online Hector

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Thanks for posting that, Roger.  As Jungle says, it is really all very distressing.  Every day one seems to read of some new piece of waste, corruption, wokeness or just crass stupidity on the part of UK bureaucrats or politicians.  If it isn't the Government, it's the Banks, local councils, the BBC or some other institution that  has lost its sanity and wants to impose it's views (or those of some 'woke' lobby group) on all of us. 
Thailand has its niggles, to be sure, but living here now seems to be more conducive to keeping one's own sanity than trying to struggle with UK's idiocy.  Sad!


Online caller

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But just look at what happens when they try to make any changes to the welfare system, or the NHS. Everyone screams and hollers and shouts. Unless there is a consensus for modernisation - and there isn't - nothing will change.

I recall when Blair appointed Frank Field as minister of state for benefits (or some such title) after the 1997 election. He was told to think the unthinkable. He really undertsood about welfare, what worked, what didn't and how to improve it. Within a few months he was gone. Ian Duncan Smiths subsequent proposed changes were also ripped apart, watered down and so on. And so it continues. The brutal truth is that any changes to the rules, will affect or exclude some current recipients and include others that currently, just miss out. So as ever, they tinker here and they tinker there. It's politics. And meanwhile, more and more still come, the cost increases, people don't want tax rises, but still demand their rights to this, that and the other and nothing changes.

It doesn't matter who is in charge, it is fudge, fudge, fudge and a collective responsibility for failure, and not just politicians.


Online Roger

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Hector I agree with you about Thailand, it's problems are beginning to pale in comparison to the UK where today, even the 'immigration moderate', Ken Clarke was extolling the virtues of the Rwanda policy, (which has become virtually moribund in the face of opposition from all sides).

As Caller points out - it's hard to get anything done in the UK these days. In my words, I'd say it's because a tsunami of whingeing greets any possibility of change, (even where that change is very badly needed). The UK IS in a downward drift and that's for sure.

Sunak is the target for much of the blame for current ills but I feel he is working hard to hold back a flood of long entrenched problems. Labour look likely to win the next election but the Jury is out on whether or not, that will help  ::)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2023, 09:55:19 PM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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The 'woke' is entrenched in the Church of England too . . . .

"Britain’s passive surrender to a woke minority risks everything we cherish. Conservatives are losing because they, like society, have lost confidence and don’t stand up for the truth."

" The Archbishop of York, Stephen Cottrell, says the word “Father” is “problematic”. He says this because of “those whose experience of earthly fathers has been destructive and abusive” and “all of us who have laboured rather too much from an oppressively patriarchal grip on life”. This follows an attempt, made at the General Synod in February, to introduce gender-neutral terminology in worship in Anglican churches." . . . . .

. . . . . "in the name of inclusivity, the Church’s leaders are alienating many of its members. This is neither the first example from within Anglicanism, nor a problem limited to the Church. We have seen Muslim prayers read in Westminster Abbey that refer to Mohammed as “the chosen one”, and the adhan recited in Manchester Cathedral, claiming “Mohammed is the Messenger of God” – both, fundamentally, refutations of the divinity of Christ.

We have seen, too, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, get behind the Black Lives Matter (BLM) campaign, auditing statues and commemorative names in the Church and comparing British figures to Felix Dzerzhinsky, the mass murderer responsible for the Red Terror. Welby has talked of collective sin inherited by white people and by the British, and claimed there can only be forgiveness for the sins of past British generations “if we change the way we behave now” – a position contradicted by scripture."


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/09/britains-passive-surrender-to-a-woke-minority-risks-cherish/
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online caller

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As Caller points out - it's hard to get anything done in the UK these days. In my words, I'd say it's because a tsunami of whingeing greets any possibility of change, (even where that change is very badly needed). The UK IS in a downward drift and that's for sure.

Its not just the UK Roger, it's everywhere. The Dutch Govt. just folded because of rifts over immigration.

Many Countries are in an unhealthy position. Spain and Germany included.

Strangely, Italy, with it's right wing coalition, seem to be faring better than most. It's interesting that the so called populist parties (only centre right get called populist) are softening their stance on the EU, immigration et al, as the established failures in most Countries implode. Simply to take advantage of those voters sitting on the ledge, Just look at France.

And the same is happening in the UK, don't expect massive change when Labour gets in. They are dependent on the working class vote, and they have learned to vote with their feet. Labour have learnt that to their cost. Apart from the far left of Labour, which is why Starmer is keeping them under close control.

Starmer is even talking advantage of the discontent over green policies and the effect on ordinary people, not on trend, but a vote winner. if he did the same on the gender nonsense, he'd be unstoppable.


Online Roger

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Caller I agree and particularly immigration (not effing 'net migration' as they say in woke land), is a problem all over Europe. Not because of unpleasantness or even some sort of racism but because (and in the UK particularly), 'there is 'no room at the Inn'. Educational, medical and housing resources are seriously over stretched  >:(  and many other issues such as the Environment and Defence require serious attention.

As the HoC tries to implement the Rwanda disincentives, the bloody Lords are still resisting the Legislation though all well-entrenched in NIMBY land no doubt, in fine spacious accommodation in most cases.

Time to reform the 'Lords' for sure  ;)
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Robert

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Caller I agree and particularly immigration (not effing 'net migration' as they say in woke land), is a problem all over Europe. Not because of unpleasantness or even some sort of racism but because (and in the UK particularly), 'there is 'no room at the Inn'. Educational, medical and housing resources are seriously over stretched  >:(  and many other issues such as the Environment and Defence require serious attention.

As the HoC tries to implement the Rwanda disincentives, the bloody Lords are still resisting the Legislation though all well-entrenched in NIMBY land no doubt, in fine spacious accommodation in most cases.

Time to reform the 'Lords' for sure  ;)

(And in the UK particularly) there is 'no room at the Inn'. Educational, medical and housing resources are seriously over stretched

Excuse me but that is exactly the reason why the Dutch Govt just folded (Caller even mentioned it in his reply).
That did not happen in the UK so IMHO when writing particularly please include or even highlight The Netherlands  too. I know this is a British forum but please when you mention Europe do not exclude other countries by stating something which is not completely correct.


Online Roger

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Hi - I'm not sure that K-F IS a British forum Robert ! We have Members from the USA, Thailand, Holland, Australia and so on. Please post more yourself and encourage your Countrymen to join us too - it would be great to see more about Holland and Europe more widely of course.

Thanks for the reminder about the fall of the Dutch Government. Please explain some more - I for one hadn't realised that Holland could be in such a bad situation on many fronts (not just Immigration), as the UK seems to be ?

Maybe the use of 'particularly' was incorrect ? Tell me more . . . .
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Hey Robert I could be wrong about Holland's problems . . .  ;)

Such as this :-

"The Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte has resigned, triggering the collapse of the four-party coalition government over the issue of migration. It would have been so much better if Rutte had resigned in principle over the Miss Netherlands competition which was won on Saturday by Rikkie Valerie Kolle, 22, a trans woman.

I don’t think anyone is seriously suggesting that Kolle was the prettiest contestant. The rapturously lovely runner-up made the winner look even more like a stray Grand National entrant. But this is not about fairness – or, God forbid, being fair of face. That probably conforms to some now-banned Western “heteronormative” ideal of beauty
."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2023/07/12/miss-netherlands-transgender-model-rikkie-valeria-kolle/

Beauty pageants are a nonsense at the best of times (IMO) but this - ouch !!   ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Robert

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Hi Roger,

just change British into English speaking majority, ok?

In the past years there have been the following problems in The Netherlands (sorry Holland is not the official name anymore and should not be used accrding to the government):

Surcharge affair.

Many families with children have run into problems because they had to pay back benefits due to errors at the tax authorities. Some have lost their homes, lost jobs, etc. Incidentally, this has been going on since 2004, but it became a surcharge scandal in 2017.

Gas extraction in Groningen

Everything could have turned out differently if the Groningen people had been listened to earlier. "Now gas extraction has resulted in an unprecedented systemic failure of both public and private parties who have failed in their duties."

Moreover, leading politicians, such as Prime Minister Rutte, have long underestimated the seriousness and urgency of the problems. When it became clear around 2018, Rutte did visit Groningen repeatedly and showed involvement, but to the frustration of the Groningen people nothing changed.


Nitrogen crisis

The nitrogen crisis in the Netherlands is an ecological and legal crisis that has been called that since 2019 after a ruling by the Administrative Jurisdiction Division of the Council of State. The nitrogen problem is at the root of the crisis. In the Netherlands, the soil is burdened by a very high application of reactive nitrogen compounds, in particular ammonia (NH3) that is released from animal manure.[3] In addition, nitrogen oxides (NOx) are emitted by combustion engines, such as in motor vehicles and in industry. Human activities in which nitrogen compounds are released in large quantities lead to undesirable effects on the quality of soil, water, air and nature.


Immigration crisis

The main categories of non-Dutch immigrants are: refugees, people who come to the Netherlands for work and family members who follow. A quarter of non-Dutch immigrants come from countries that are members of the European Union.
Immigrants arrive in Italy, Turkey or Greece and like to travel on to the Netherlands because the social security is (or rather was) so good. Refugees who have to sleep outside or on a chair because reception places fall short. Refugees who bring family members over, refugees who have no residence status but go into hiding. Influx causes major problems in the housing market, health care system, etc., so similar to UK. Hence my comment about being particularly prevalent in the United Kingdom did not strike me as wholly correct.

Just a summary of what the small country of the Netherlands has to deal with.



Online Roger

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Yes K-F is an English language forum certainly but of course, English is very widely spoken around the World so it's wide open to many   ;)   Netherlands is small in area maybe but the population of 18 million (?)  is more than I would have guessed . . . . .

Sorry to see that immigration problems are particularly prevalent in the Netherlands along with many other problems too !
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Robert

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Hi Roger,

English is widely spoken around the world. Like I did not know, haha. Have been to all continents besides Antartica (too cold) so aware of the universal language.

Just some history.
The state of Pennsylvania would officially be bilingual, English and German, until 1950. But there was no real German; it was more of an obsolete creole, the Pennsylvania German (aka Pennsylvania Dutch, although this is "German, Deutsch" and not "Nederlands, Dutch, Diets").

The state of New York also wrote its state documents in Dutch until the 1920s.


Online caller

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Can I ask you Robert, whether the views of the Dutch are that the various immigration laws are seen as unjust and actively working against the local community.

You mentioned housing, which is a big issue in the UK. I understand there will will be emergency accommodation for new arrivals or whatever, but does it take months and years for asylum applications to be processed, before the many that are refused (the vast majority in ther UK are), then just seem to diappear into the ether, especially, as physically, your Country is much smaller. Where do they go.

Also in the UK, there are queues for social housing accommodation, with priority groups going to the front of the queue, which gives the impression that immigrants are given priority, when they are not, it's the circumstances they find themselves in, with children etc, that gives them priority, and thus the character of so many areas have changed dramatically. So in effect, it amounts to the same thinb. In my London borough, in the 2001 census, the basic make up of the community was 60% white, by the time of the next census in 2011, that had reduced to 40% white and I am sure that in London, that trend is continuing,  Is that an issue in The Netherlands?

I worked within the system for years, and from 1989 until the day I retired, I saw the abuse almost daily, and that includes those arriving from the EU. Many of whom were originally from Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and so on. And although I never worked for the Immigration Dept. I worked with them a lot, and despaired.



Online Alfie

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^ A couple of points in your post resonated with me, caller. Priority and immigration.

I'm going back a few years now, but at one time I lived in London. I went to work there. I lived not far from LHR. One day I went to the local doctor's surgery to register there as my previous one was hundreds of miles away. I walked in the door and another gentleman walked in seconds before me. The receptionist dealt with him. He was an asylum seeker, not long arrived. I knew that because I recognised the document he gave the receptionist. The woman took down his details and registered him, then she told him to sit and wait. Then it was my turn. I told her I wanted to register as well. She told me I couldn't. "We're full" she said! What? I was gob-smacked, and I told her why she should resister me! Eventually she did but that experience has remained a vivid memory for me.