In Britain these days . . . .

[caller]

The westeern World is collectivelly guilty of 'sparing the rod, and spoiling the child', that might be too extreme, but some punishment, any suitable punishment, might have halted the 'entitlement' culture that sort of exists now.

[Roger]

On that subject Hector/Caller I was pleased to see this recently - "Police must investigate every theft and follow all reasonable leads to catch offenders, the home secretary has said. Suella Braverman said it was "completely unacceptable" that criminals are often "effectively free to break certain laws". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66636347

I guess we will all believe that things can be improved, WHEN it actually happens 

[Hector]

I think what disturbs me more than the fact that the police don't seem to be able to do much is the steep decline in morals and the standard of behaviour  in British society.  I know we old farts always claim 'it wasn't like this in our day', but the fact is - it wasn't!

[Roger]

Hector- re. your reply 80, here's an extremely alarming report on the topic in today's Guardian - described as a 'shoplifting epidemic'   

"In recent months, David, the manager of a Leeds Co-op store, and his staff have been threatened with razors, knives, screwdrivers, needles and hammers by shoplifters who have become more brazen and aggressive. “It feels like these offenders can simply come in and take what they want, and do what they want,” the 36-year-old said. “Not one or two items – they come in with bags, sacks or clothing, which can conceal hundreds of pounds’ worth of stock – coffee, meat, wine, laundry gel, anything that can be re-sold. It is looting. They are known in the city centre as repeat offenders … They know the police don’t have the resources or can’t attend quickly enough.” " https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/15/its-organised-looting-uk-in-grip-of-a-shoplifting-epidemic-say-store-owners

An appalling state of affairs   

[Hector]

Just read that Guardian article, Roger.a and I find it the most appalling indictment of the way our society in the UK is going/has gone.  I have enormous sympathy with the shopkeepers, who, as they say, are virtually powerless to do anything themselves for fear of contravening some woke law about the rights of the individual or something.  The police really do seem to be pathetic, but I suppose under-manning and a likewise need to adhere to some pretty namby-pamy laws prevents them from doing much either.  Whats to do?  Tricky one this!

[Roger]

Hector - yes Leeds and here, Croydon - moreorless everywhere I guess 

"In the back office of his family-run grocers in Croydon, south London, Ben Selvaratnam is reviewing CCTV footage. “This is yesterday’s incident,” he says, looking at a video clip of two men loading a carrier bag with alcohol and laundry detergent. “Some of them are quite brazen; they don’t even run. They’ll just walk out, like, ‘What are you going to do?’” he says. He rewinds and points to the men, who saunter straight to the cabinet containing chilled beers. “He’s just there putting things in his bag. They’re taking their time – they don’t expect to be challenged.”

The recent tide of retail crime started rising post-Covid, he says, beginning with an incident where a shoplifter violently attacked one of his employees in July 2021. “We held [him] down because after being confronted, he hit one of the staff members… I think we kept him there for about two hours.” But the police never came. “[They] said, ‘there’s no one to come see you.’ We asked what to do with him and they said, ‘let him go.’ But he didn’t leave – he just hung around outside being abusive. For the team that was very traumatic. It does feel like we’ve been left on our own.”

There has been an underlying issue with shoplifting since Selvaratnam, 40, bought the business eight years ago, but it has exponentially worsened over the past year and a half. Shoplifting has reached a record high, according to data from the Home Office, which shows that between January and March this year, over 100,000 shoplifting offences were recorded. This equates to 1,100 reported crimes a day – a 37 per cent increase on the previous year and the biggest annual increase ever. Separate figures show that the proportion of shoplifting offences resulting in a sanction has plummeted from 47.5 per cent to 18.7 per cent since 2016.

Selvaratnam is on the front line and sees “minimum two to three incidents a day.” He is proud of his selection of wines, which are neatly presented by region and have been positioned next to the tills to try and deter shoplifters. But still people steal “nine or 10 bottles” at a time. If challenged, he says, some people smash them intentionally. Two of the doors installed in the chilled aisle have been smashed. Another flashpoint is the Post Office concession, where elderly and vulnerable customers often queue up to pay bills or deposit cash, which thieves try to snatch as it is handed over."

From the DT this time - I haven't posted it all.  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/16/britains-shoplifting-epidemic-shopkeepers-paying-price/

[Roger]

The star man is now getting more attention now than Liz Truss did     as trial by media and social media progresses nicely, he is of course guilty until proven innocent as is the 2023 style   

However, I have to say I have always felt RB was a disgusting character and on the TV, for me, a definite and immediate turn off.

He's an obvious sleazebag BUT hard not to feel a little sorry for him, watching this downfall.

But good riddance . . .

[jungle]

I agree trial by media isn’t really fair and Russell is entitled to be considered innocent till proven guilty
On that subject is there a trial likely to happen over these allegations?
I have two thoughts on Russell Brand
1. He’s made very successful and profitable career of pushing conspiracy theories with vague claims ,accusations and innuendo against various institutions ,groups and individuals himself without out offering much in the way of sound evidence ,causing some distress and harm to others (same with most of these “social influencers “)
Karma ,chickens home roost ,pot kettle ?

2 Many defending Russel claiming it’s an organized campaign against him because he’s a threat to big pharmac,Ukrainian ,US Democratic party,libtards arms manufacturers and bla bla
But Russel has never exposed any thing or broken a story that’s new
His show is mostly rehashing of what ever the current conspiracy theories are

My thoughts are Russells all about the money and keeping relevant no great social crusade going on here

Never trust a fast talker they are just out to bamboozle

Yes Roger good riddance to him

[caller]

I am not a fan of Brand, nor the fact he is making a lot of money out of regurgitating old alt views to the gullible - over 20k pw according to the experts - plus the other stuff he does. But neither am I a fan of trial by media. Another way this could have been handled, would have been to hand the evidence to the police and sit back and let justice take it's course. But then they lose their scoop! Of course, Brand can sue for libel,  which may result in an out of court settlement. Either way, he can't win and his life has been changed for ever.

[Roger]

Ms. Pearson puts it well in the DT - "I don’t know if Russell Brand committed the hideous offences several women claim that he did. If the police go ahead, the merit of the allegations must be tested in court. There is a world of difference between a “shagger” and a rapist. No political partisanship should lure us into excusing the latter as laddish behaviour. What I do know is that our system holds that a man is innocent until proven guilty. The attempt to unperson Russell Brand is almost as disturbing as the sins of which he stands accused."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2023/09/19/brand-conspiracy-theory-own-right/

[Teessider]

I remember you all saying what a great bloke Jimmy Savile was when he died. Bob Geldof summed up Russell Brand correctly.

.

[Roger]

Hi Teess - I don't remember that at all. Where is that coming from ? Please can you expand?
 
Re JS - my niece who was an ex-Crunchie wing walker, wrote a letter to JS once, to JWFI, proposing my then old Mum for a wing walk, like up and down. Thankfully - no reply 

But as the only WRAF in a Free French squadron of hundreds, Mum - (Dad too) - would have flown given a chance.

JS was surely the ultimate shame to being popular . . . but it was a total shock to most ?

***********

I was sad to see today that Ken Livingstone has alzheimers. To look at dying with that shame, IMO he doesn't deserve that . . .

[caller]

I remember you all saying what a great bloke Jimmy Savile was when he died. Bob Geldof summed up Russell Brand correctly.

I just had a look at the thread after he died. Nobody still posting here called him a great bloke. One or two praised his charity work, but this was a long time before the truth came out. You obviously had some insight. Oh, and you had a pop at me as well! 

[Roger]

Rishi - splashing around in the UK's poisoned chalice but making a number of good moves.

"Rishi Sunak is considering a major reform of A-levels to ensure children study more subjects in sixth form. The Prime Minister wants a new “British Baccalaureate” as part of a move towards a more continental-style system of education.

The proposed reforms would see English and maths becoming compulsory until the age of 18, alongside a requirement that children study a wider range of subjects in post-16 education."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/09/21/rishi-sunak-plans-major-reform-a-levels/

[Hector]

Shoplifting in the UK now seems to have become an epidemic, with charity shops among the latest stores to be targeted.  Shopkeepers are now saying that they no longer phone the police as it is pointless, because the police hardly ever respond.  I note that the met' police chief has instructed his people to take 'zero tolerance' on shoplifting, but I doubt that will improve matters much.  Edmund Burke is often misquoted as saying: “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”   But whoever said it, the sense of the quote is certainly relevant here. 

[Roger]

Spot on Hector - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12546363/Co-op-bosses-shoplifting-causing-anarchy-syringes-knives.html

It's out of control. Even at Waitrose in leafy Melksham, a security guard watches over the 2 self service tills all the time and I've seen frequent offenders escorted back out the door. But it gets MUCH worse than that!

[jungle]

Was wondering why many people consider the allegations against Brand serious
This article covering some of the legal aspects of the allegations shines some light on it

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/sep/24/russell-brand-and-why-the-allegations-took-so-long-to-surface

[caller]

Was wondering why many people consider the allegations against Brand serious
This article covering some of the legal aspects of the allegations shines some light on it

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/sep/24/russell-brand-and-why-the-allegations-took-so-long-to-surface

I don't really get the link between your first sentence and the article on the legal aspects of publishing such stories, which I found very interesting.

Brand was once employed by The Guardian as a columnist.

[jungle]

Hi Caller Maybe what I mean I s with the UK having much stricter libel laws in favor of the defendants I believe the journalists and media groups have solid evidence to  back their story’s otherwise they wouldn’t publish for fear of legal action

[caller]

Hi Caller Maybe what I mean I s with the UK having much stricter libel laws in favor of the defendants I believe the journalists and media groups have solid evidence to  back their story’s otherwise they wouldn’t publish for fear of legal action

I think thats right. I also suspect there is unpublished material, that will be passed to the Police.