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Sima Thani flyover to be demolished for railway.

caller · 18 · 272

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Online caller

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I looked, but not sure where to put this one, so please feel free to move.

The BP is reporting the flyover will go to allow the railway to take precedence. But only once studies have been completed to manage traffic .

I have an idea about that - leave the flyover in place!

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1751589/korat-flyover-to-make-way-for-rail-route

NB - Is there a need for a transport sub-forum for buses, trains and plane  topics?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 10:46:46 AM by caller »


Online Robert

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Hi Caller,

I also read this article and immediately questions popped up. How about the now existing u-turns under the bridge? How they plan to solve this issue? Do they plan to raise railroad tracks before this new junction or only shortly before  trainstation (as stated in article)? I sent email to SRT asking more info however not really expecting a reply  ;D ;D ;D

So I agree do not demolish this bridge. Only think about 3 years of traffic jams in that area  >:( >:( >:(


Offline Anton

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The BP is reporting the flyover will go to allow the railway to take precedence. But only once studies have been completed to manage traffic .

We discussed about it 2 years ago when Robert reported about it the first  time, see here.

This new piece of news in English is very vague as usual. Thai friends told me about much different dates for construction works to start: 6 years later than mentioned in this news report (2026, not 2020; and to end by 2029!). If that was true, there would still be plenty of time for new developments and changes to come up.

This piece of news seems to clarify what I think was a bad translation and source of confusion in the previous report 2 years ago, when they talked about a tunnel:

At the junction where the railway is to cross the elevated bypass the track will pass through a tunnel, he said, adding the bridge in front of Sima Thani needs to be demolished to make way for the tunnel.

There will be no tunnels of course, but "the rail track will be laid under a flyover at the Pak Thong Chai Intersection" as mentioned in this new report: perhaps uselessly, because railway track there is already passing under the elevated bypass; or perhaps they intend to build an additional flyover for traffic somewhere around there. It remains all very vague.

How about the now existing u-turns under the bridge? How they plan to solve this issue? Do they plan to raise railroad tracks before this new junction or only shortly before  trainstation (as stated in article)?

There's confusion between the railway junction with Bypass (by the Pak Thong Chai intersection) and the one with Mitthapap (by the Sima Thani). In my understanding, now that I read this new article, they plan to raise the tracks after junction with Bypass but before junction with Mitthapap. How will they manage with those u-turns? No idea for the moment, but I would guess for elevated u-turn bridges, although the whole thing wouldn't make much sense, as already remarked in the previous discussion: demolishing a still good road bridge to build two new ones? For what? Is the existing railway passage under that bridge too narrow for adding the second track?  ???
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Online rdrokit

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I also read the article and thought how can I avoid going into that area for 3 years. lol


Offline Anton

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In my understanding (...) they plan to raise the tracks after junction with Bypass but before junction with Mitthapap (...) For what? Is the existing railway passage under that bridge too narrow for adding the second track?

The answer might be that the junction with Mitthapap is too near to the important level crossing on Suebsiri, being certainly one they want to get rid of. In turn, the Suebsiri level crossing is too near to the main railway station itself. Therefore they do need to raise tracks before the Mitthapap junction. Thus they might get rid also of at least another minor level crossing on the way, the one at Mitthapap soi 12.
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Online caller

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What they are planning for Hua Hin, where the new so called high speed railway will be raised as it heads through the absolute centre of town (at least), is to leave the adjoining current railway line in place (I assume it will be improved and landscaped). Basically the old railway line is one side of a 'klong' and the new railway is on the other side and much demolition has taken place for the new line and there is still much more to do, although many support pylons have already been built. So the old, original 'Royal station' will be preserved and continue to be used, whilst a new station will be built further along at the height of the new raised railway line.



Offline Anton

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What they are planning for Hua Hin, where the new so called high speed railway will be raised as it heads through the absolute centre of town (at least), is to leave the adjoining current railway line in place (I assume it will be improved and landscaped).

More or less what they did with the Airport Link in Bangkok if I understand well. From what I remember however there was no improving or landscaping of the old railway line for the stretch running under the Airport Link. I don't know if they started working on it in recent years.
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Online caller

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More or less what they did with the Airport Link in Bangkok if I understand well. From what I remember however there was no improving or landscaping of the old railway line for the stretch running under the Airport Link. I don't know if they started working on it in recent years.

Well, the airport link is of a much larger scale of course. There are some areas that have been adapted for recreational use where there is space. But in the outer areas. I hope they do some landscaping in Hua Hin and maintain it and I believe that is in the plans. But considering the vandalism they have done to the town centre here and then wonder why tourism from abroad has dropped, there have to be concerns that my hopes are but a pipe dream (most tourism to Hua Hin is by fellow Thais).


Online KiwiCanadian

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Looking at what the BP artical is saying 
"Under the plan, the rail track will be laid under a flyover at the Pak Thong Chai Intersection and elevated to a height of 10 metres as it approaches Nakhon Ratchasima railway station. This section is part of a double-track rail route from Map Kabao in Saraburi to Thanon Chira Junction in Nakhon Ratchasima."

From the Pak Thong Chai Intersection to the Nakhon Ratchasima railway station is approximately 2 km with a rise of 10 meters, the Sima Thani  flyover is 1.2 km from the Pak Thong Chai Intersection, at a rough guesstimate this would have the line at around 6 meters above its present level at Sima Thani, right trough the middle of the existing bridge. Why the SRT needs to elevate the line is beyond my comprehension, there should be just enough room to squeeze another track alongside the existing one there. It would be interesting to understand what the SRT has in the way they will run the double track with passenger and freight services. Hopefully they will combine the 2 to be able to quadruple the amount of traffic compared to what it is today. And get those slow trucks off the roads.
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Online Robert

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Hi KiwiCanadian,

just a question. Pak Thong Chai intersection: does that mean where 304 passes 24? If so distance between the intersection and Sima Thani Hotel is not 1,2 km but 32,6 km. I found this info through Thailand distance Calculater (https://distancecalculator.globefeed.com/Thailand_Distance_Calculator.asp

How did you calculated/checked this distance?

I also heard that level of 10 meters was for high speed trains as SRT does not want anybody crossing the railroads to avoid accidents. Inside Nakhon Ratchasima station posters can be seen of high speed trains. SRT wants to seperate the normal rail traffic from high speed trains so the main station of Nakhon Ratchasima will have to be remodelled..

 


Offline Anton

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Why the SRT needs to elevate the line is beyond my comprehension, there should be just enough room to squeeze another track alongside the existing one there.

To get rid of manned level crossings maybe? At least of the 2 most important ones, immediately west and immediately east of the central station.

But according to the same confusing report of two or three years ago, it was due to opposition by local people against the idea of a wall splitting the city:

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has decided the Chira-Khon Kaen double track railway will be partially elevated when it passes through downtown Nakhon Ratchasima, ending local people's worries the city would be divided by a giant wall according to the original plan.

But then they added:

The disputed section runs from Chira Road junction in Muang district to Khon Kaen. Local people said they feared heavy congestion would result from the Nakhon Ratchasima line.

The section from Chira junction direction Khon Kaen doesn't run through the central station...
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Online caller

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Khon Kaen now has a completed elevated railway line, but I'm not sure if it's for local use or linked to this project. I think the latter as the new main KK station is huge, soulless, faceless and elevated.


Online KiwiCanadian

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Hi KiwiCanadian,

just a question. Pak Thong Chai intersection: does that mean where 304 passes 24? If so distance between the intersection and Sima Thani Hotel is not 1,2 km but 32,6 km. I found this info through Thailand distance Calculater (https://distancecalculator.globefeed.com/Thailand_Distance_Calculator.asp

How did you calculated/checked this distance?

I also heard that level of 10 meters was for high speed trains as SRT does not want anybody crossing the railroads to avoid accidents. Inside Nakhon Ratchasima station posters can be seen of high speed trains. SRT wants to seperate the normal rail traffic from high speed trains so the main station of Nakhon Ratchasima will have to be remodelled..


Hi Robert, see the attached screen shots of google maps. this is the interchange that my wife tells me is the Pak Thong Chai intersection" 304 over the 2. I took the measures from goggle maps as you see. This is what I based my measurements on.

I tend to agree about the 10 meters height for the high speed and I have noticed that from the beginning of the double tracking and high speed announcements, that even within the government they have confused them self's over the 2 issues and get the facts completely muddled up.
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Online Robert

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Hi KiwiCanadian,

I searched for Pak Thong Chai intersection on Google Earth and there it was on a different place, but maybe I am wrong as I am not Thai.

[url=https://ibb.co/7YyVRKD]Pak-Thong-Chai-intersection" border="0[/url]
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 05:36:09 PM by Robert »


Offline Anton

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I searched for Pak Thong Chai intersection on Google Earth and there it was on a different place, but maybe I am wrong as I am not Thai.

Robert, whether Thai or not Thai, the first "Pak Thong Chai intersection" naturally coming to mind here downtown Korat, when no further detail is given, is the one indicated by Kiwicanadian  :)  To my knowledge it has always been so since I'm living here. Otherwise people would specify better that they're talking about a different intersection.

Also, as in the latest BP article posted by Caller they are talking about the double-track railway project, that other intersection indicated by you is necessarily out of the question. And regarding the other project, the (not so) high-speed railway project, I don't remember reading anywhere that they already designated where to place Korat's high-speed railway station. If you hold that information from some reliable source can you share please?
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Online Robert

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I read somewhere (cannot remember where) about railway tracks at 304/24 crossing. Thatswhy I thought Pak Thong Chai intersection was somewhere else. I  live here for almost 13 years but never been interested in trains so I made wrong assumption.

Do not have any info about any new railway station but assumed current station would be adapted.


Online KiwiCanadian

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I had a look on Goggle maps at the Khon Khaen station thats been built already and I see now how they will basically go right through the Sima Thani bridge. So they want to elevate the bridge over the elevated Railway???
Why not put a partial tunnel underneath the place where the elevated rail will be then once the road is fixed they can go ahead and finish the Rail link up.

But don't take 3 years to do it.
Look at what they do in England build a tunnel close to the site, this could be done one side at a time then close the road for the long weekend and push it into place. It would necessitate stopping rail traffic for a few months but this would be nothing compared to what they did when they changed the old wooden sleepers to concrete ones some 5 or six years ago, what a waste of time that was.

Have a look at this.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btOE0rcKDC0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btOE0rcKDC0</a>
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Online KiwiCanadian

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If they don't like my suggestion in my previous post, maybe something similar to this would get the job done just as quickly.
Similar but instead of the river, the Hwy placed under the railway.

Clear an area adjacent to the tracks for the machinery and materials staging, then remove hwy 2 bridge and Rail line. Next dig out section for a 4 lane each way of hwy 2 under the existing grade and finish with precast sections similar to those shown in the attached YouTube clip, this design will be made to accommodate the double tracking. Get this done first before any work is done on the new double track & elevation of the 1 meter gauge double track starts in this location. If coordinated and scheduled properly I would give them one month to have the new road underpass open to traffic, from the time of closing traffic to opening again.
It might take 6 months to prepare the site and have all the components available before closing the road and rail traffic in the area, but it would certainly be better than 3 years for this to happen.

Thai rail need to give a detailed time line of events that they project will be needed for their plan to happen, so to appease everyone.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jmh3lyj0Z8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jmh3lyj0Z8</a>
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