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Author Topic: High-speed train plan  (Read 3048 times)

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caller

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #80 on: December 06, 2017, 06:37:51 PM »

This project will have to be massively subsidised in order for it to be used regularly. The average Thai that travels north East can't even afford the BTS in Bangkok, that's why the buses are so crowded. I know someone who has just spent a week or so at their home in Pak Chong travelling from Hua Hin. I asked if she was using the Hua Hin - Korat bus to get there and back, she looked at me as if I was mad. Van to Bkk, then bus.
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Anton

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #81 on: December 07, 2017, 09:16:59 AM »

The average Thai that travels north East can't even afford the BTS in Bangkok, that's why the buses are so crowded.

I don't get the logical link between these two concepts you are expressing here: what busses are you referring to, and how does that relate to BTS fares?

Anyway I agree BTS is expensive for average Thai people and for the service it provides. I use it regularly when in Bangkok and I'm not impressed by the service. During rush hours it gets so packed on certain tracts, it happened to me having to wait until the third train before being able to squeeze in. During other hours you often have to wait up to 10 long minutes for the next train to come in. And ticket prices kept going up since my first visits in Thailand 10 years ago. If you buy a daily card, it's not valid for the next 24 hours, but only until midnight that day. And, as far as I know, they still didn't introduce any kind of card valid for all rapid transport lines in Bangkok - meaning this also as a critic to the Ministry of Transport and its Mass Rapid Transport Authority.


I know someone who has just spent a week or so at their home in Pak Chong travelling from Hua Hin. I asked if she was using the Hua Hin - Korat bus to get there and back, she looked at me as if I was mad. Van to Bkk, then bus.

Are you sure the Hua Hin-Korat bus stops in Pak Chong? I'm asking this because last January I had to travel by bus from Pak Chong to Bangkok, and I found that most Korat-Bangkok bus lines are now skipping downtown Pak Chong altogether. They even closed the bus station there: the few busses are now stopping on the main road through town. That time I was a bit in a hurry and I had to jump on the first van I found with a free seat inside.

Or maybe the Hua Hin-Korat bus only stops on the highway outside of town, which could be too much of an inconvenience for your friend? How does that relate to BTS fares anyway?
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caller

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #82 on: December 07, 2017, 10:50:37 AM »

I don't get the logical link between these two concepts you are expressing here: what busses are you referring to, and how does that relate to BTS fares?

Anyway I agree BTS is expensive for average Thai people and for the service it provides.

I know someone who has just spent a week or so at their home in Pak Chong travelling from Hua Hin. I asked if she was using the Hua Hin - Korat bus to get there and back, she looked at me as if I was mad. Van to Bkk, then bus.

Are you sure the Hua Hin-Korat bus stops in Pak Chong? I'm asking this because last January I had to travel by bus from Pak Chong to Bangkok, and I found that most Korat-Bangkok bus lines are now skipping downtown Pak Chong altogether. They even closed the bus station there: the few busses are now stopping on the main road through town. That time I was a bit in a hurry and I had to jump on the first van I found with a free seat inside.

Or maybe the Hua Hin-Korat bus only stops on the highway outside of town, which could be too much of an inconvenience for your friend? How does that relate to BTS fares anyway?

The local Bangkok buses that travel under the BTS. I know someone who works at Phrom Phong and lives at Bang Chak, within a few minutes walk of each station, but takes the bus that follows the same route, as using the BTS woud take too big a chunk out of their salary. So, these are the same people that unless heavily subsidised, are unlikely to be able to afford the new train fares back to their homes in the NE.

Okay, apologies about the Hua Hin - Korat bus. It's a while since I last used it and when I did it stopped at the bus station in Pak Chong.

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Anton

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #83 on: December 07, 2017, 01:38:15 PM »

The local Bangkok buses that travel under the BTS. I know someone who works at Phrom Phong and lives at Bang Chak, within a few minutes walk of each station, but takes the bus that follows the same route, as using the BTS woud take too big a chunk out of their salary. So, these are the same people that unless heavily subsidised, are unlikely to be able to afford the new train fares back to their homes in the NE.

BTS is definitely too expensive. Yet, those BTS trains are often overflowing with passengers.

Although you can't really compare a urban transport situation with an intercity one, it's not difficult to see that ticket prices will be decisive in the amount of passengers using the future (not-so-)high-speed railway, provided it ever sees the light. As I already wrote in reply no. 63, by the way.

I don't understand very well how this talk of turning it into a freight transport comes in now. Do the two functions (passengers - freight) necessarily exclude each other? Why?

What a mockery for Northeastern people, especially Korat people, if the passenger project would suddenly turn into a freight-only project! Where is all the euphoric talk about Korat's rocketing development now? And about moving part of the national administration from Bangkok to Korat? All hot air after all?
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KiwiCanadian

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #84 on: December 07, 2017, 08:14:23 PM »

I don't understand very well how this talk of turning it into a freight transport comes in now. Do the two functions (passengers - freight) necessarily exclude each other? Why?

Anton,

There are probably 2 conditions for this, some one has seen that passengers alone will not generate enough revenue to cover the costs.

Freight on a standard gauge rail line into China solves a lot of logistical problems with the Thai meter gauge track.
They should be able to schedule both sets of Passenger & freight on the same tracks, especially that it will all be double track????

I can see why they want to have this double track standard gauge line running to the airport in Ut-apao, add a couple of more kilometers of track and your at the big port of Rayong, this will add to the chinese silk road dominance.

Juts my hypothesis on the situation.
KC
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Anton

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #85 on: December 08, 2017, 10:19:21 AM »

They should be able to schedule both sets of Passenger & freight on the same tracks, especially that it will all be double track????

Thank you for explanations KC. Reading here and there, reading other readers' comments on press reports already posted (namely on this one - South China Morning Post) as well as on other reports on the same subject (for example on this one - Shangaiist), I see that the Thais' mind is still set on the bargain phase. Those declarations by Mr. Muangkeo to South China Morning Post do not really make any sense if you consider them closely enough. Passenger service and freight service do not necessarily exclude each other. The Thais are trying to snatch from the Chinese a financial contribution to the building costs: costs that will never be entirely recovered, no matter what, as is the general rule in this kind of big utility projects.
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Anton

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #86 on: December 14, 2017, 09:55:45 PM »

Transport dash gathering steam

Construction eyed for first quarter of 2018

The cabinet over the next few weeks is likely to stay busy approving key big-ticket infrastructure projects, including the signing of a deal on the maintenance, repair and overhaul facility at U-tapao airport between Thai Airways International and partners, including Airbus.

Deputy Prime Minister Somkid Jatusripitak said the cabinet is also scheduled to approve the piling work of the Thai-Chinese high-speed railway in Nakhon Ratchasima for the 3.5km Klang Dong-Pang Asok section.

The piling work of the 179-billion-baht Sino-Thai high-speed rail network will kick off on Dec 21.

"The government pledges to accelerate the infrastructure development as planned, and the cabinet has a busy schedule to approve many significant infrastructure projects within the final two weeks of the year so that construction can commence during the first quarter of next year," Mr Somkid said.

He said the cabinet has already approved construction of the 3.5km Klang Dong-Pang Asok section worth 425 million baht -- the first part of the 253km Thai-Sino rail network linking Bangkok with Nong Khai in the Northeast.

Bangkok Post full article
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Anton

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #87 on: December 16, 2017, 11:43:44 AM »

In this news report uploaded yesterday, about high-speed railway works due to start next Thursday, the Prime Minister looks as if he's got something stuck in his craw. What could it be?


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYYlKOu_TFY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYYlKOu_TFY</a>
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Anton

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #88 on: December 16, 2017, 05:32:21 PM »

The cabinet has given a green light to the 1.435-metre standard gauge for rail tracks on three routes: Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima, Nakhon Ratchasima-Nong Khai, and Bangkok-Rayong.

Glad to see Nakhon Ratchasima/Nong Khai taking priority over Chiang Mai in this project.

But... According to this news report of today, at the end Chiang Mai might get a Japanese "bullet train" connection. Good for them  :(


Bullet train project set to cost B420bn

Bangkok-Chiang Mai fares at about B1,000

Japan has concluded its study on the Bangkok-Chiang Mai Shinkansen-like bullet train construction, estimating investment costs to be as high as 420 billion baht and fares of just over 1,000 baht a trip.

Japan's State Minister of Transport Takao Makino handed the report to Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith on Thursday for the 670km bullet train running from Bangkok to Chiang Mai, estimating the project's profitability and economic impact on surrounding areas, Nikkei Asian Review reported on its website yesterday.

The plan calls for 12 stations with the whole trip taking about three and a half hours with top speeds reaching 300kph.

Mr Arkhom told reporters that the fare for travelling the entire line from Bangkok to Chiang Mai or vice versa would cost slightly more than 1,000 baht.

The minister said plans for the first phase of the Thai-Japanese high-speed railway project would involve the Bangkok to Phitsanulok stretch and would be submitted to the cabinet for approval by next February.

According to him, the initial 380km route has been costed at 280 billion baht.

He added terms of reference (ToR) for the project will be completed by the end of next year. Auctions for certain sub-contracts of the Bangkok-Phitsanulok route may then begin in 2019, he said.

Construction of the entire Bangkok-Chiang Mai route is estimated to be competed by 2025.

Bangkok Post full article
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Anton

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #89 on: December 20, 2017, 04:57:45 PM »

This report from today's Bangkok Post offers details on the calendar of works for the Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima stretch, to be finished by mid 2021:

Railroad to nowhere - Bangkok Post 20.12.2017
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Alfie

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #90 on: December 21, 2017, 10:43:03 AM »

From Anton's link above.



The cabinet has given the go-ahead for the Highways Department to begin building the first 3.5km section of the Thai-Sino high-speed train project stretching from Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima.

Construction begins tomorrow when Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha will preside over a token launching ceremony for the 179-billion-baht Sino-Thai high-speed network at tambon Klang Dong, Pak Chong district of Nakhon Ratchasima.

Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said the first section stretching from Klang Dong to Pang Asoke will be on flat terrain and the engineering work for the railway is similar to that of roads and motorways.

As a result, the cabinet instructed the Highways Department to develop the first section with a budget of 425.94 million baht as proposed by the Transport Ministry.

The construction of the first section will take six months to complete. For the remaining three sections, auctions will be opened to seek contractors.

The second section is an 11km stretch from Sikhiu district to Kud Jik in Sung Noen district. Construction will begin in August next year and will take 12 months to complete.

The third section is the 119.5km run from Kaeng Khoi of Saraburi to Nakhon Ratchasima. Work will commence in November and last for 30 months.

The construction of the fourth section is from Bang Sue of Bangkok to Kaeng Khoi with a length of 119km, starting in January 2019 and will take another 30 months to complete.

Thanin Somboon, director-general of the Highways Department, said he has set up four working groups with a total of 100 officers to oversee construction of the first section.

The construction of the first section would be used as a model for the remaining three sections, he said.

The Transport Ministry said China will submit a design for each section on a gradual basis over six months.

In another development, Mr Arkhom said the cabinet approved the budget framework for the first phases of five new double-track railways for a total of 95.49 billion baht.
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Alfie

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #91 on: December 21, 2017, 10:48:15 AM »

Quote
The third section is the 119.5km run from Kaeng Khoi of Saraburi to Nakhon Ratchasima. Work will commence in November and last for 30 months.

In the last few weeks on the west side of Kaeng Khoi they have cleared land and covered it in sand for what looks like will be for another railway track. There are already three on that side of the town. The extra one will make it four. 

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Anton

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #92 on: December 21, 2017, 10:20:51 PM »

Works started today.

Here they say the line will reach up to 250 kph, cover the Bangkok-Korat distance in 90 min., and be operational by 2022:
Construction of Thai-Chinese railway begins - Bangkok Post 21.12.2017

Here they say it will reach up to 250 kph and be operational by "late 2022 or early 2023":
China, Thailand inaugurate construction of high-speed railway in Thailand - XinhuaNet 21.12.2017





See also:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eUrk2RxiN0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eUrk2RxiN0</a>
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Roger

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #93 on: December 22, 2017, 07:23:18 AM »

Wow. Let's see if it happens. 2023 a tight target.

I must admit I'd rather see B95 billion spent in many other ways - after all - only a few thousand people a day will benefit on this one axis.

But I hope the project goes well.
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Anton

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #94 on: December 25, 2017, 10:32:32 AM »

An optimistic Chinese point of view from yesterday's Xinhua, maybe to help keep Thailand convinced of the benefits of the project for Thailand itself, in particular for the depressed Northeast. Is China worrying that Thai authorities may decide to halt their financial investment in the project after completing the Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima stretch, thus frustrating this important part of the OBOR dream? Just my very personal speculation.

Some interesting points on current deficiencies in freight transport in Thailand:

Interview: China-Thailand high-speed railway upgrades Thailand's transport system: expert - XinhuaNet 24.12.2017
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Anton

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #95 on: December 28, 2017, 06:08:37 PM »

Is China worrying that Thai authorities may decide to halt their financial investment in the project after completing the Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima stretch

A likely scenario according to the Japanese point of view as expressed in this revealing article dated today. Among other things, here they say the Bangkok-Korat line will be operational by 2021:

China's high-speed train plans in Southeast Asia stumble - Nikkey Asian Review 28.12.2017
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Alfie

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #96 on: January 01, 2018, 10:02:55 PM »

Quote
The third section is the 119.5km run from Kaeng Khoi of Saraburi to Nakhon Ratchasima. Work will commence in November and last for 30 months.

In the last few weeks on the west side of Kaeng Khoi they have cleared land and covered it in sand for what looks like will be for another railway track. There are already three on that side of the town. The extra one will make it four.

I made a mistake in my post above. There are two tracks there already. If the new work is for another track, that will make three.
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KiwiCanadian

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #97 on: January 01, 2018, 10:54:04 PM »

Quote
The third section is the 119.5km run from Kaeng Khoi of Saraburi to Nakhon Ratchasima. Work will commence in November and last for 30 months.

In the last few weeks on the west side of Kaeng Khoi they have cleared land and covered it in sand for what looks like will be for another railway track. There are already three on that side of the town. The extra one will make it four.

I made a mistake in my post above. There are two tracks there already. If the new work is for another track, that will make three.

Alfie,
I see a lot of confusion over the High speed and the double tracking, my understanding is that the High speed will be built on world standard (4'-81/2") gauge, dedicated to just that service.
The double tracking will be on the Thai meter gauge system for freight and supplementary passenger service.

That's what I have come to read of this, but heaven knows this is Thailand what will the real outcome will be??
KC
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Alfie

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #98 on: January 02, 2018, 02:22:47 PM »

Thanks, KC. Yes, sometimes it's hard to seperate the two projects, for me anyway. But the HS rail line will be going through Kaeng Khoi so do you think that new sandy stretch of land is not going to be used for the High Speed line? Will the HS line be constructed in a completely different area, possibly bypassing Kaeng Khoi Junction station? Or will they build a new station in Kaeng Khoi at a different location?
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KiwiCanadian

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Re: High-speed train plan
« Reply #99 on: January 02, 2018, 07:53:49 PM »

Thanks, KC. Yes, sometimes it's hard to seperate the two projects, for me anyway. But the HS rail line will be going through Kaeng Khoi so do you think that new sandy stretch of land is not going to be used for the High Speed line? Will the HS line be constructed in a completely different area, possibly bypassing Kaeng Khoi Junction station? Or will they build a new station in Kaeng Khoi at a different location?

Alfie, I think what you are seeing at Kaeng Khoi is the meter gauge double tracking coming up from the port area around Map Ta Phut as it crosses highway 2.
The high speed is coming from Ayutthaya through Kaeng Khoi. I think they are connecting the stations where a branch line of the meter gauge diverges of to other communities, that's my take on the grand scheme of it as one would want to connect as many people as possible.
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