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Lance Armstrong.

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dutchy124

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Travis keeps saying he has all this proof, show the world what cheats these people were or shut up is my view.


white fang

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Does this mean we have to drug screen Mr Hppo?


mr hippo

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Does this mean we have to drug screen Mr Hppo?
You can but all you will find is nicotine++!!

Cyclists have always been divided over Armstrong. Most pro cyclists start the year with the Spring Classics, the most notorious one is L'enfer du Nord; the Paris Roubaix which normally includes over 60 kms of cobbles. Many use the Tour of Switzerland and Giro d'Italia as training runs for the Tour de France. Armstrong hardly ever featured in the Spring Classics, Switzerland or Italy.
Stage racing is not an individual sport but a team sport with a team leader and 8 others whose job is to support the leader. So if our team had Alfie as team leader and included White Fang and myself we may have to forgo our chance of a stage win to give it to Alfie or to keep him in the yellow jersey. If Alfie wants a drink then I may have to drop about 200 places to get to the team car and pick up a drink for Alfie plus  more bottles for my team mates and then expend a lot of energy getting back up to Alfie.
Today's stage finishes in White Fang's home town and he wants to win here but Alfie punctures about 6 km from the finish; the Mavic neutral service car is nowhere to be seen and the team car is about 10 minutes back so White Fang give Alfie either a wheel or your complete bike and say goodbye to a win in your home town!
Armstrong reminds me of a boy with few friends but does have a football. If he is not captain of one team and has the pick of the players ne will take his ball back!
Armstrong possibly bullied his team mates by saying keep quiet of you are off the team



« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 06:27:35 AM by mr hippo »


Offline Alfie

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Here's the statement by the US anti-doping agency.

........ ......... .......... ......... .......... ..........


Statement From USADA CEO Travis T. Tygart Regarding The U.S. Postal Service Pro Cycling Team Doping Conspiracy

October 10, 2012  

Today, we are sending the ‘Reasoned Decision’ in the Lance Armstrong case and supporting information to the Union Cycliste International (UCI), the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), and the World Triathlon Corporation (WTC). The evidence shows beyond any doubt that the US Postal Service Pro Cycling Team ran the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful doping program that sport has ever seen.  

The evidence of the US Postal Service Pro Cycling Team-run scheme is overwhelming and is in excess of 1000 pages, and includes sworn testimony from 26 people, including 15 riders with knowledge of the US Postal Service Team (USPS Team) and its participants’ doping activities. The evidence also includes direct documentary evidence including financial payments, emails, scientific data and laboratory test results that further prove the use, possession and distribution of performance enhancing drugs by Lance Armstrong and confirm the disappointing truth about the deceptive activities of the USPS Team, a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding.  

Together these different categories of eyewitness, documentary, first-hand, scientific, direct and circumstantial evidence reveal conclusive and undeniable proof that brings to the light of day for the first time this systemic, sustained and highly professionalized team-run doping conspiracy. All of the material will be made available later this afternoon on the USADA website at www.usada.org.

The USPS Team doping conspiracy was professionally designed to groom and pressure athletes to use dangerous drugs, to evade detection, to ensure its secrecy and ultimately gain an unfair competitive advantage through superior doping practices. A program organized by individuals who thought they were above the rules and who still play a major and active role in sport today.  

The evidence demonstrates that the ‘Code of Silence’ of performance enhancing drug use in the sport of cycling has been shattered, but there is more to do.  From day one, we always hoped this investigation would bring to a close this troubling chapter in cycling’s history and we hope the sport will use this tragedy to prevent it from ever happening again.

Of course, no one wants to be chained to the past forever, and I would call on the UCI to act on its own recent suggestion for a meaningful Truth and Reconciliation program.  While we appreciate the arguments that weigh in favor of and against such a program, we believe that allowing individuals like the riders mentioned today to come forward and acknowledge the truth about their past doping may be the only way to truly dismantle the remaining system that allowed this “EPO and Blood Doping Era” to flourish. Hopefully, the sport can unshackle itself from the past, and once and for all continue to move forward to a better future.

Our mission is to protect clean athletes by preserving the integrity of competition not only for today’s athletes but also the athletes of tomorrow.  We have heard from many athletes who have faced an unfair dilemma — dope, or don’t compete at the highest levels of the sport. Many of them abandoned their dreams and left sport because they refused to endanger their health and participate in doping. That is a tragic choice no athlete should have to make.

It took tremendous courage for the riders on the USPS Team and others to come forward and speak truthfully. It is not easy to admit your mistakes and accept your punishment. But that is what these riders have done for the good of the sport, and for the young riders who hope to one day reach their dreams without using dangerous drugs or methods.

These eleven (11) teammates of Lance Armstrong, in alphabetical order, are Frankie Andreu, Michael Barry, Tom Danielson, Tyler Hamilton, George Hincapie, Floyd Landis, Levi Leipheimer, Stephen Swart, Christian Vande Velde, Jonathan Vaughters and David Zabriskie.

The riders who participated in the USPS Team doping conspiracy and truthfully assisted have been courageous in making the choice to stop perpetuating the sporting fraud, and they have suffered greatly. In addition to the public revelations, the active riders have been suspended and disqualified appropriately in line with the rules. In some part, it would have been easier for them if it all would just go away; however, they love the sport, and they want to help young athletes have hope that they are not put in the position they were -- to face the reality that in order to climb to the heights of their sport they had to sink to the depths of dangerous cheating.

I have personally talked with and heard these athletes’ stories and firmly believe that, collectively, these athletes, if forgiven and embraced, have a chance to leave a legacy far greater for the good of the sport than anything they ever did on a bike.

Lance Armstrong was given the same opportunity to come forward and be part of the solution. He rejected it.

Instead he exercised his legal right not to contest the evidence and knowingly accepted the imposition of a ban from recognized competition for life and disqualification of his competitive results from 1998 forward. The entire factual and legal basis on the outcome in his case and the other six active riders’ cases will be provided in the materials made available online later today. Two other members of the USPS Team, Dr. Michele Ferrari and Dr. Garcia del Moral, also received lifetime bans for perpetrating this doping conspiracy.

Three other members of the USPS Team have chosen to contest the charges and take their cases to arbitration: Johan Bruyneel, the team director; Dr. Pedro Celaya, a team doctor; and Jose “Pepe” Marti, the team trainer.  These three individuals will receive a full hearing before independent judges, where they will have the opportunity to present and confront the evidence, cross-examine witnesses and testify under oath in a public proceeding.

From day one in this case, as in every potential case, the USADA Board of Directors and professional staff did the job we are mandated to do for clean athletes and the integrity of sport.  We focused solely on finding the truth without being influenced by celebrity or non-celebrity, threats, personal attacks or political pressure because that is what clean athletes deserve and demand.”

http://www.usada.org/cyclinginvestigationstatement.html
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Offline angsta

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Lance Armstrong has denied taking drugs but has admitted peddling.



I'll get my coat...
Never argue with an idiot, first they bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

"Only in America can you be pro-death penalty, pro-war, pro-unmanned drone bombs, pro-nuclear weapons, pro-guns, pro-torture, pro-land mines, and still call yourself ‘pro-life.’"

There is no society.


dutchy124

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http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/461043/reasoneddecision.pdf

That is the official 200 page report found in the Daily Telegraph newspaper. I hope the link works.

He is obviously guilty as sin. I have previously said he must be innocent until proven guilty, well I think this report does just that.

A sad for me as I watched quite a few of his Tour wins and thought he was just better than the rest, a truly gifted rider, now the reality is he was just a better cheat than the rest.


Offline angsta

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Never argue with an idiot, first they bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

"Only in America can you be pro-death penalty, pro-war, pro-unmanned drone bombs, pro-nuclear weapons, pro-guns, pro-torture, pro-land mines, and still call yourself ‘pro-life.’"

There is no society.


mr hippo

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Armstrong was a good rider, not a great one. His success was based on media hype, the sympathy vote and cycling team hierarchy and politics.
There are nine members in a cycling team with 8 of them having one aim in mind of getting a race win for the team leader. In the team there are specialist climbers and sprinters, the other members in the team are good cyclists in their own right and not 'also rans'. Teams have their tactics and daily orders. If the stage is a sprint finish, Sky's Mark Cavendish is the sprinter, Wiggins is the leader but in a sprrint finish Wiggins will be working for Cavendish. On other stages, Cavendish may be given water boy duties; shuttling the water bottles from the team car to team members.
I remember cycling over the Yorkshire Moors many years ago and I met a woman cyclist. We got talking and I eventually recognised her as Beryl Burton, possibly the greatest female cyclist ever. She told me that she did not consider herself 'great' because she had no decent competition!


Offline angsta

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Mr Hippo, slow down please. IF Mr Armstrong had never been found to have taken shit loads of drugs then he would have been remembered as great and we both know it. He is now a fraud. He had competition and he was better than they were. He beat some amazing riders. But he is a cheat. He would have been up with the likes of Merckx if they hadn't caught him. Lets not try and re-write history too much here.  ;)
Never argue with an idiot, first they bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

"Only in America can you be pro-death penalty, pro-war, pro-unmanned drone bombs, pro-nuclear weapons, pro-guns, pro-torture, pro-land mines, and still call yourself ‘pro-life.’"

There is no society.


Offline angsta

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Mr Hippo, slow down please. IF Mr Armstrong had never been found to have taken shit loads of drugs then he would have been remembered as great and we both know it. He is now a fraud. He had competition and he was better than they were. He beat some amazing riders. But he is a cheat. He would have been up with the likes of Merckx if they hadn't caught him. Lets not try and re-write history too much here.  ;)


it's If not IF.


 ;D I was highlight the IF/if by putting it in capitals. I love you AB x.
Never argue with an idiot, first they bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

"Only in America can you be pro-death penalty, pro-war, pro-unmanned drone bombs, pro-nuclear weapons, pro-guns, pro-torture, pro-land mines, and still call yourself ‘pro-life.’"

There is no society.


mr hippo

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Mr Hippo, slow down please. IF Mr Armstrong had never been found to have taken shit loads of drugs then he would have been remembered as great and we both know it. He is now a fraud. He had competition and he was better than they were. He beat some amazing riders. But he is a cheat. He would have been up with the likes of Merckx if they hadn't caught him. Lets not try and re-write history too much here.  ;)
It is nearly impossible to decide on the greatest ever anything, there are too many variables. Yes, we can put a modern pro on a 30's bike but we cannot put a 30's pro on a modern bike. We can, however, compare their records, you mentioned Eddie Merckx so we will compare his record with Armstrong's. The scoring system is 5 points for a win in the three major tours  France, Italy and Spain and the World Championship; 3 points for a win in major single day races and classics and 1 point for a stage victory in major tours. Eddie Merckx scores 224 points and Lance Armstrong just 85 points.
I see you refer to Lance Armstrong as Mr Armstrong but Eddie Merckx only gets his surname, why?


Offline angsta

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I dislike Armstrong. I have put my cards on the table already if you check the thread. He is a cu*t (sorry Alfie). I guess it was because Armstrong is easier to spell :).

The major tour is the tour de France and Armstrong dominated. Very easy. We both know that. The tour of Italy/Spain?? Yeah. Right. If you ask the riders they want to win in France.
Never argue with an idiot, first they bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

"Only in America can you be pro-death penalty, pro-war, pro-unmanned drone bombs, pro-nuclear weapons, pro-guns, pro-torture, pro-land mines, and still call yourself ‘pro-life.’"

There is no society.


mr hippo

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The major tour is the tour de France and Armstrong dominated. Very easy. We both know that. The tour of Italy/Spain?? Yeah. Right. If you ask the riders they want to win in France.
Correction, his team dominated, without a good team the leader of that team cannot win.
Most sports have more than one competition. Tennis players want to win at Winbledon; with F1 it is possibly Monaco; footballers it is the World Cup.


dozer

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I think the saddest part of all this, is the fact that Lance Armstrong really has and seemingly continues to help many unfortunate souls in their battle with cancer. The livestrong foundation is a worthy cause.
Now however, the foundation will be tarred with the same brush and perhaps sponsors will reconsider their support of Livestrong. All because of his ego and wanting to be number one.
Possibly the worst of all is the fact that many youngsters suffering from cancer looked up to this guy and were inspired by him. Psychology is a huge part of beating any illness and with their inspirator now sullied, I hate to think what it will cost these victims.
Just an opinion


Offline angsta

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Possibly the worst of all is the fact that many youngsters suffering from cancer looked up to this guy and were inspired by him. Psychology is a huge part of beating any illness and with their inspirator now sullied, I hate to think what it will cost these victims.
Just an opinion

I think a lot of people in the states don't care if he took drugs and are in denial much like the man himself.

But he was still a legend Hippo, team or no team he would be remembered as one of the greats. You know that.
Never argue with an idiot, first they bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

"Only in America can you be pro-death penalty, pro-war, pro-unmanned drone bombs, pro-nuclear weapons, pro-guns, pro-torture, pro-land mines, and still call yourself ‘pro-life.’"

There is no society.


mr hippo

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But he was still a legend Hippo, team or no team he would be remembered as one of the greats. You know that.
Armstrong will be remembered in the same way as Tony Kay ex Everton is remembered. He had the potential of becoming one of the greats but is not remembered for his footballing skills.
He will be remembered in the same way as Boris Onishchenko is remembered. If you remember the Montreal Olympics that name is in the back of your mind somewhere. Without using google or similar, think about the name and then pm me with what he is famous for.


dozer

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I just heard on the Air 1 (online radio from the states) Lance Armstrong has stepped down as president of the Livestrong Foundation effective immediately as of this morning EST.


AUSSIE BRIAN

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Possibly the worst of all is the fact that many youngsters suffering from cancer looked up to this guy and were inspired by him. Psychology is a huge part of beating any illness and with their inspirator now sullied, I hate to think what it will cost these victims.
Just an opinion

I think a lot of people in the states don't care if he took drugs and are in denial much like the man himself.

But he was still a legend Hippo, team or no team he would be remembered as one of the greats. You know that.


the term legend is used to much to describe people who achieve through others. legends to me are. winston churchil, vivian bullwinkle, weary dunlop, amelia earheart..not sure of spelling...etc.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 10:53:55 PM by Aussie Brian »


Offline Alfie

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Nike has now dropped its sponsorhip of Armstrong.


Nike stated that "due to the seemingly insurmountable evidence that Armstrong participated in doping... we have terminated his contract".
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


AUSSIE BRIAN

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Nike has now dropped its sponsorhip of Armstrong.


Nike stated that "due to the seemingly insurmountable evidence that Armstrong participated in doping... we have terminated his contract".


many sponsors of tiger woods dropped him when skanks came out of the woodwork like like terrradites to level accusations against him re sexual dalliances. armstrong is as guilty of drug using as jane fonda was of treason during the vietnam war. 2 months ago i thought he was innocent and i expressed that to a certain poster but now...no.