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Brexit

Alfie · 845 · 27804

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Online Roger

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3 years or more after the Brexit referendum, at last, the UK is getting on with the job  ;)  IMO it's a shame that BJ was not in place when the EU and Ireland first started conspiring to make Ireland the issue which would  stall any Brexit progress, irrespective of the risks. Well done our PM !

''Boris Johnson has torn up the Northern Irish backstop and demanded new terms for the UK to leave the EU with a deal in 10 weeks’ time. In a letter to the EU on Monday he said the backstop was “anti-democratic and inconsistent with the sovereignty of the UK” and it risked “weakening the delicate balance embodied in the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement”.''

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/19/boris-johnson-says-backstop-must-dropped-uk-leave-brexit-deal/

Another correspondents interesting reflections from Poland, in a linked article :-

''But it mostly strengthened my conviction that Brexit is a wise choice - not just for the UK, but for our friends in Europe too. The liberal audience in Sopot may have been attracted to the idea of an ever-centralising, ever-consolidating EU, but few in Britain bar the most hardline Remainers genuinely want a United States of Europe. Perhaps it’s better that we are leaving our neighbours to take the European Project to its logical conclusion - we were only ever going to get in their way.''

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/19/trip-poland-left-convinced-ever-right-leave-eu-fulfil-superstate/?
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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That's right Boris - the 'Ayatollahs' have had the UK on the run for too long. The UK should pay what is owed but no more . . .

''Boris Johnson will today throw down the gauntlet to Brussels by vowing to withhold £30 billion of our 'divorce bill' to punish the EU for refusing to rip up their Brexit deal. The Prime Minister – making a combative first appearance on the international stage since entering Downing Street – is expected to tell EU leaders at the G7 summit in Biarritz that the £39 billion bill agreed by Theresa May will be cut to £9 billion – or even as little as £7 billion – by the UK.''

And someone is standing up to the bullying bureaucrats at last !  Boo !!

''Yesterday, Mr Tusk warned that he would not co-operate with the UK over No Deal, saying: 'I hope Prime Minister Johnson would not like to go down in history as Mr No Deal.' But speaking to reporters on the flight to Biarritz, Mr Johnson said: 'I don't want a No Deal Brexit but I say to our friends in the EU: if they don't want a No Deal Brexit then we've got to get rid of the backstop from the treaty. 'If Donald Tusk doesn't want to go down as Mr No Deal Brexit then I hope that point should be borne in mind by him too.' ''

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7391285/Prime-Minister-rips-divorce-bill-lawyers-say-No-Deal-means-Britain-owes-9billion.html
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online caller

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The interesting thing about this 30 day timescale to come up with other ideas about replacing the planned backstop (although Merkel later said that timescale is not set in stone) is not that the EU is likely to change it's mind over the backstop, but that it eats into the period when the remainers will have to make their move to get rid of Johnson, which has been made all the harder, when he can legitimately claim that the EU have now stated they will consider new proposals.

It will effect the publics view of whatever action they propose to take and probably erode their support in the commons. Hammond has clearly been rattled and is now demanding apologies for being linked with the leak of Mays brexit doomsday scenario, although no-one is taking a blind bit of notice of him. 

Brexit is already having a detrimental effect on Germany's economy because of all the uncertainty and I suspect that is what is in Markel's mind. To bring an end to this process once and for all and get on with Brexit, as other leading figures in the UK are also now suggesting, such as Sir Stuart Rose who initially led the remain campaign. I think that's where the momentum now lies, especially now the Tories have a 10 point leas over Labour in the polls, even without Brexit party supporters.


Online Roger

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Crikey - the current session of Parliament will end on Sep 9th and there'll be a Queen's Speech on Oct 14th for a new session.
Go Boris !   :o

''In a letter to his Cabinet colleagues today, the Prime Minister said he had spoken to Her Majesty, who is in Balmoral, "this morning" where he requested "an end to the current Parliamentary session in the second sitting week in September". He said that the second session of this Parliament would commence with the Queen’s Speech on Monday, Oct 14. "A central feature of the legislative programme will be the Government’s number one legislative priority, if a new deal is forthcoming at EU Council, to introduce a Withdrawal Agreement Bill and move at pace to secure its passage before 31 October," he said.''

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/28/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-no-deal/
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Thaiwolf

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Online caller

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Importantly, it undermines the legal action being taken in Scotland to rule Johnsons move as illegal, as he is doing anything but. All he is in effect doing, is delaying MP's return after the conference season by a week and still giving them a full debate on Brexit.

I think he has taken this action now as the numbers attending yesterdays 'remain' meeting were so desultory that it appears much of it's support has waned. Good. The mood shift since Johnson took over has been astonishing. 
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 09:05:22 PM by caller »


Online Roger

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Caller - ''The mood shift since Johnson took over has been astonishing.'' Absolument !

Moving on . . . . Parliament would normally have been shut for 3 weeks during that period, for the Party Conference season - is that right ? So it's not 5 weeks extra shutdown ?

Asa Bennett in the DT :-

''Remainers are failing to grasp how overblown their hysterics are, as they desperately try to make out that Mr Johnson is suspending Parliament to force through a no-deal Brexit. Yet he is not seeking to suspend Parliament to force that through but to provide the warm-up for a Boris Government Queen's Speech. MPs will still be sitting afterwards all the way up to October 31, free to pontificate in the House of Commons as they see fit. Dominic Raab's past threats to suspend them all the way up to October 31 are not being made a reality.''

. . . . ''Remainers are making fools of themselves by trying to depict the Prime Minister as a dictator. The most he can be accused of doing is bending the parliamentary rules in his favour, which the likes of Mr Grieve and his allies have done flagrantly and regularly. If anti-Brexiteers are going to live by procedural ploys, they must be ready to die by them too. It's about time they got a taste of their own medicine.''

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/28/boris-giving-remainers-taste-medicine-queens-speech-gambit/

''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Thaiwolf

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It would appear that te EU has changed its stance from "no negotiation"  to "we will listen to any workable alternative to the back stop".  Boris could pull this off!!


Offline Alfie

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The devil is in the detail. In this case the word "workable". The EU have so far dismissed all ideas put forward as unworkable. They will keep doing so, in my opinion. Boris should have put the ball back in their court and challenged them to find a workable solution that suits both sides.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Online Thaiwolf

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Online sfs

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So good old remainer Ken Clarke would possibly vote for Corbin as temporary PM provided he was kept under control. Time to shuffle off in your hush puppies into retirement me thinks Mr Clarke.
If at first you don't succeed you are clearly not cut out for it. Give up and move on.


Online Roger

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 :'(

Germany - population 83 million, GDP $ 4.6 trillion, 360,000 square KM

France - population 67 million, GDP $ 3.1 trillion, 640,000 square KM 

Michel Barnier - population 1, GDP nil, office 8 metres x 5 metres   ::)

If Merkel, Macron and 23 other Nation States want to show flexibility to avoid a 'No Deal' exit that will harm them as much as the UK, then they need to get rid of Philip Barnier who has treated the UK very badly throughout the Brexit process. It ain't gonna happen  >:(

The Bureaucrats have taken over - that's why I don't want the UK to remain in the EU at all.
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online caller

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Michel Barnier - population 1, GDP nil, office 8 metres x 5 metres   ::)

If Merkel, Macron and 23 other Nation States want to show flexibility to avoid a 'No Deal' exit that will harm them as much as the UK, then they need to get rid of Philip Barnier who has treated the UK very badly throughout the Brexit process. It ain't gonna happen  >:(

The Bureaucrats have taken over - that's why I don't want the UK to remain in the EU at all.

The thing is that Merkel, Macron et al, represent the EU Council who have their own observers / negotiators. Barmier represents the commission and reports to the drunkard.

Basically, they are all playing the same game they played with May. Merkel now says she didn't really say what ahe said to Johnson, Macron comes up with a variation on a theme and then there is Bernier. It worked with May and made her look silly. Johnson is proving to be somewhat different. If only the traitors in the house could be dealt with, especially the Tory one's, then all these games would stop. Interesting to read today that they are now all facing deselection, which particularly seems to have phased Hammond - good. I'd burn them all at the stake, which is just about all they deserve.


Online Roger

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''I'd burn them all at the stake, which is just about all they deserve.''

Caller - agreed. Please add John Bercow to the list   ;)
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Thaiwolf

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So, some MPs are disgusted by Parliament being prorogued - wait, are these not the same ineffectual, self-obsessive gobshites who have consistently failed to deliver in Parliament what the majority of the British people want?

The British people deserve better than this mob of dithering idiots.


Online jivvy

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 ;D
One should never do wrong in return, nor mistreat any man, no matter how one has been mistreated by him.”
- Socrates


Online Roger

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Nice one Jivvy  8)

There's widespread wailing about the health of Democracy in the UK  ???  But isn't what we are seeing now, democracy in action ?  It's a complete muddle of course, but it will be sorted out. If Parliament now votes to block a 'no-deal' Brexit then we'll have a General Election and the people's voice will be heard again.

If a General Election takes place without the Tory rebels, at last we'll have a Party and maybe a Govt. that's 'united' about Brexit. The Conservatives and Labour have been split since the Referendum and unity has been elusive, until now. I do hope Farage's lot won't split the Brexit vote and put us all back in the bucket  ::)

Surely this UK chaos is more representative and democratic than subjugation to the EU's Ayatollah's and Bureaucrats, drunks like Juncker and fanatics such as Barnier.

More tea Vicar !
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Thaiwolf

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This ridiculous pantomime continues - what a shambles and no nearer to a conclusion.  Teresa May's deal is looking increasingly appetising.
I am sure that the eventual deal will be just a hair different to her deal.
Our politicians should be ashamed of themselves.


Online caller

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Our politicians should be ashamed of themselves.

I can't ever recall a situation where the house is so obsessed with itself to the exclusion of the people they are actually meant to be serving. They seem completely blinkered by peoples concerns and views, bar those few that shout loudest.

Look at Philip Lee crossing the floor yesterday. Another Tory promising to respect the referendum decision (on film) before it happened, who represents a Brexit supporting constituency that he has basically just shat on. Completely ignoring them. Just how many is that now and not one has had the decency to resign and fight their position in a by-election. Unlike UKIP's Carswell, who successfully did - yet they are called fascists!!!!

Look at Labour, now against Brexit and all their supporters in the North and North East who, who voted by generally the highest margins for Brexit. Now just ignored for the vote of the London luvvies. What does that say to the working class in those areas? Basically, that they don't count.

This really is a very British coup and I think it could get very nasty if Parliament isn't careful.


Online Thaiwolf

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The worrying thing for me is that I cannot see how an election is going to solve the problem.
For the first time, I am beginning to think that Brexit may not happen.
Crickey, a libdem/Labour coalision could possibly topple Boris!!