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Alfie · 947 · 31426

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Online Thaiwolf

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Online Roger

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TW - going back to this -"now we just have to get rid of Scotland"  ::)   Why so ?   :-\
The Scots voted 55% to stay in the UK in 2014 . . . . Just despatch Nicola Sturgeon to Dartmoor prison !

But N. Ireland - there you have it !   "We pay a net £7.8 billion to gain access to (the EU) market of about 450 million people (after deducting our own population) and we pay £8.8 billion a year to 1.8 million people in Northern Ireland."

And Janet Daley in today's DT - "Can this really be happening? Can this tiny group of DUP politicians who represent a population of roughly 2 million people (but not really even that since they cannot form a functioning government) actually be about to undermine a deal that almost everybody else – including the purist ERG MPs – is ready to accept and which the country and the EU – including the business and agricultural interests of Ulster – are crying out for?

And is it really credible that Ulster, which cannot sustain its own government at Stormont, should have an indefinite veto on any agreement precisely because it has no functional Stormont parliament (and is not likely to have one in the foreseeable future) that might be capable of consenting to the conditions agreed? So the principle of consent is nullified more or less permanently because there is no Ulster government to give consent. This is absurdity piled upon absurdity
."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/17/earth-can-tiny-group-dup-politicians-stand-way-brexit-deal/


Robert I saw your comment about the troubles . . . "Have seen too many horrible scenes even on Dutch TV regarding the troubles between the two different religions in Northern Ireland." Yes we all agree on that point no doubt BUT IMO it would have been much better if Eire and the EU negotiators hadn't kept building that concern up by constant references to it.

The whole N. Ireland situation is difficult - after all, the DUP's main concern is to keep their position of minority rule  intact forever   ::)  Perhaps Ireland should leave the EU too ! That'd sort a few problems.

BTW this is not the arrogant Brit Imperialists hankering for old days of glory, rather it's Brits rueing the continuing disastrous effects of it's past Imperialism and wanting to move on !  ATB

''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Thaiwolf

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 Hi Roger,  I just think that Scotland deserve a chance to stand on their own two feet rather than surviving on the goodwill and cash of the rest of the UK.  They will fail of course but independence would at least get them off our backs. They think that an independent Scotland will be welcomed back into the EU and then they can sponge off them instead - best of luck with that idea.

I wouldn't mind if they at least appreciated the English aid,  but truth be told they hate us. Get rid of them and start building the border posts.


Online caller

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So Boris got a deal after all. He has achieved in a few weeks what May and her lying band of remainers couldn't manage in 3-years. Even her awkward squad are saying they will vote for it.

But I don't think Parliament will.

They are going to p**s the public off so much, I don't honestly believe they understand the consequences of their actions. Even Starmer was thrown out by the questions he faced yesterday. What do remainers do? A 2nd referendum, no real appetite for that and the chances are they will lose as people will see the deal for what it is and others will resent it being called and for dragging this on and on. An election? They will get ripped apart. If they had any sense, they will pass the deal and let the Government get on with it, but first they have to pass the Queens speech.

If Labour had any sense, they would kick out Corbyn and his cohorts and return to the middle ground and face the Tories on equal terms. Will that happen post Brexit - no idea?

 


Online Thaiwolf

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 Agree with all that Caller.  We're in good shape.  If Parliament votes for the deal (doubtful)  that's fine.  If it doesn't,  people's vote, choices Boris deal or no deal - and we all know how that vote will go.


Online Thaiwolf

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See what I mean!!

HMRC,  July 2019.

"Scottish Government's £941 million income tax shortfall offset by £737 million increase in UK Government funding"


Online Roger

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Caller - "I don't think Parliament will" (pass the new deal).

I beg to differ - I think it will scrape through. Anyone else ready to guess ? Shall we poll it ?

IF it doesn't who knows what'll happen   :-X

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/17/win-lose-weekend-boris-calls-election-now-unstoppable/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/18/deal-may-represent-last-chance-independent-sovereign-nation/
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Coolkorat

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Ok Dam, I can listen. As I am a free person not to be dictated by anyone i will for sure state want I want to say anywhere (ok not so much in Thailand  ;D).
So I came to the conclusion this forum does not like persons with different opinions compared with theirs. 
I always try to look at issues from both sides in order to help find a solution if possible. You only talk about numbers but look at history then. I read all the time info over no borders because of the Good Friday Agreement. Have seen too many horrible scenes even on Dutch TV regarding the troubles between the two different religions in Northern Ireland. So I understood the importance of this. Can understand that nobody wants to repeat this.

Robert, I echo the sentiments of others: please do not let this affect your views or hinder you in expressing your opinions. They are very much valued by everyone on the forum. This is a place for everyone, and for polite discourse. Please keep posting your views and opinions; they are important to us all.


Online sfs

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Well if parliment doesn't pass this deal tomorrow which like others I think is highly unlikely, then maybe it's time to call in the army to run the country, round up all the politicians and give them a while in jail teaching them to mend their ways and then have an election!!

All said with tongue in cheek of course but these self serving gits need something to wake them up so the realise who they are supposed to serve.
If at first you don't succeed you are clearly not cut out for it. Give up and move on.


Online Thaiwolf

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The final betrayal.  Barnsley MP whose constituents voted by 68% to leave is set to vote against the Boris deal.


Offline Alfie

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The final betrayal.  Barnsley MP whose constituents voted by 68% to leave is set to vote against the Boris deal.

There are 4 MPs for Barnsley so I guess you mean Angela Smith, the woman who left Labour for the Change UK party then left Change to join the LibDems. She wants to stop Brexit altogether. She will also leave her Penisone and Stocksbridge seat in Barnsley at the next election to contest the Altrincham and Sale West seat, where 61% of voters voted remain.
'You're only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!'


Online Thaiwolf

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Online caller

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For what it's worth, Teresa May's contribution to the earlier debate about Letwin's amendment was excellent.

But I have no ides what is happening now - Bercow is saying the Govt. can't have a vote on Monday. Someone needs to take him down.


Online Thaiwolf

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Letwyn,  the smug git smirking at the back,  looking like a puppy saying "look what I've done,  aren't I a clever boy".

Hope the whole lot of them are voted out at the next election.


Online Roger

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I read somewhere that Letwin, having secured his Amendment and ensured that a 'No deal' can't be triggered on October 31st, would now be likely to vote for BJ's deal IF it is put to the House next week. I think some other MP's were happy to see BJ cut down a little (in contrast it was good to see Theresa May being supportive). The danger is now that the Labour 6 who voted with the Govt may disappear now the threat of a 'No deal' is dissipated. I wonder how the EU will respond ?

Letwin was apparently the genius behind the "Poll Tax' idea which hit the rocks.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/19/act-sabotage-sir-oliver-letwin-took-control-denied-boris-johnson/

''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online caller

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I wonder how the EU will respond ?

Badly - according to this tweet:

As Portugal’s former secretary of state for European affairs Bruno Macaes tweeted in the immediate aftermath of yesterday’s vote in Westminster: “I suspect the EU which broke the Remain heart last week” — by agreeing a deal with Johnson — “will now proceed to crush it.”

I doubt they will do anything before the next summit next week.


Offline Alfie

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As Boris has said he will get the legislation in place for the withdrawal (The Withdrawal Agreement Act) by 31 October, the EU might just wait until 31 October to decide what needs to be done - extend or not extend. 
'You're only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!'


Online Thaiwolf

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So what happens now.  If MPs suggest amendments,  the EU might not approve.


Online Roger

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Hi TW. ATM I believe BJ has 'pulled' the Brexit Bill and intends to try and call an election - somehow.

You can bet your boots that Resolution won't get the 67% backing it needs under the 'Fixed Term Parliament Act' so the Tories might try another device which will trigger more machinations . . . .

Or a 'No Confidence' motion could be brought . . .

I've long been of the opinion we need a General Election THAT RESULTS IN A MAJORITY GOVT to get out of this mire. Knowing BJ might get a majority is likely to make Labour, the Lib Dems and Scot Nats to duck an election ?
Will the Tories cooperate with the Brexit Party in otherwise 'unwinnable' seats ? I hope so.

Sweet Lord ? We also have to wait and see what length of 'extension' the EU decide on. Macron is grumpy.

And SO AM I

''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Thaiwolf

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I still think Roger,  that a majority government is doubtful.  It would be a real gamble to call an election before Brexit is sorted.