Korat-Farang.com

Brexit

Alfie · 853 · 28143

dam12641, Dylan_Leo, KiwiCanadian and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3369
I've been listening to the latest machinations in May's Brexit vortex - it's deadly boring but oh so important  ::)

The HoC can only find consensus in what it is against . . .

A second referendum is pointless - then a 3rd, 4th, 5th ?

A General Election would only confirm the present paralysis ?

Will we extend Article 50 ? If we do, the paralysis continues . . .

Well done the EU - everything has gone to plan  >:(

Somehow Mrs May has to go - maybe Leadership can then emerge to edge this forward.

Caller - I'd really like to see your take on this. (And anyone else's  :))
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 05:49:18 AM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online caller

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 1907
No view to take.

Parliament is in a very dangerous position where the majority seem to be seeking to deny the democratic process.

They have voted against 'no deal' in effect, making it harder for any Govt. to negotiate, but quite frankly, no deal is where we are heading as thisgs stand. Poll after poll shows this is what the majority favour.

We are witnessing the breakdown of the last 60+ years of the political party status quo, but MPs just don't realise or see that. No party will emerge from Brexit unscathed and the arrogance and contempt displayed by MP's of all parties towards Governence and the electorate will not be forgiven.

We need a leaderwith strength and vision and we haven't got one.

The EU continues to fall apart day by day. The German economy is now a flash point and nearing recession, consumer spending is weak and Brexit fears are having an effect, France is France and appears stuffed, yellow shirt protests are spreading, Italy faced down the the EU over their debt, which is still bubbling, Sweden still can't form a Government after Septembers elections and are there elections in Belgium this month? Spain tensions are increasing and EU elections are in May. Can't imagine too many pro-eu parties doing well?


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3369
Thanks Caller. I agree with Chris Patten -''Mrs May's deal is 'dead' and that 'however much lipstick you put on a pig, it's still a pig'''

I hope they go ahead with that vote on Tuesday.

''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3369
Alfie - your first post after the Lancaster House speech Jan 18th 2017 - ''I've just watched Theresa May's Brexit speech. Quite good, I thought.''

I wonder what you think now ?   ::)

Caller - strewth. First indications are Mrs May is going to continue ?
VoC today which the Tories will win ?

Just one of the DT's articles is headed, ''It takes a special kind of skill to get that many people to unite against you, but Theresa May has managed it.''

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/15/voting-brexit-deal-proves-parliament-can-contempt-people/

118 Tory MP's voted against the 'deal'. Only 3 Labour MP's voted for it. Bloody 'ell - defeated by 230 votes. And she stays  ???  I'm glad the DM is back - some good graphics and pics here.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6595749/How-Theresa-abandoned-118-MPs.html
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 02:44:59 PM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Teessider

  • KFers in Korat
  • Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 916
  • No metropolis without Ironopolis
It beggars belief that parliament can deliver the biggest defeat ever on a government yet the next day can vote that they have full confidence in this government.
Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.
Blaine Pascal


Offline dereklev

  • KFers in Korat
  • Forum Sage
  • *****
    • Posts: 1582
  • My pride and joy boy
It beggars belief that parliament can deliver the biggest defeat ever on a government yet the next day can vote that they have full confidence in this government.

I am watching Sky News and was thinking exactly the same ???
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit…what a ride!” - Hunter S. Thompson


Online caller

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 1907
It beggars belief that parliament can deliver the biggest defeat ever on a government yet the next day can vote that they have full confidence in this government.

Yes, there are many absurdities in this whole process.

I see the Irish Govt. have been caught planning for border crossings, accidentally, whilst a tape was still running. Apparently, they don't want to be blamed for it.

We are now in a really strong position if we had a Parliament and PM with balls. The EU would struggle to survive a no deal at the best of times, but with their economy going down the pan, there will be a lot of worried leaders out there.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 09:08:17 PM by caller »


Online Robert

  • KFers in Korat
  • Solid Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1043
I have to come back on my decision not to react anymore on this topic because have to say I admire the British in their attitude to this chaos. You islanders a quite a bunch of people  ;D ;D ;D

It's like: always look on the bright side of life. In case you have forgotten the lyrics ;D ;D ;D:

Cheer up, Brian. You know what they say.
Some things in life are bad,
They can really make you mad.
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on life's gristle,
Don't grumble, give a whistle!
And this'll help things turn out for the best
And
Always look on the bright side of life!
Always look on the bright side of life
If life seems jolly rotten,
There's something you've forgotten!
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing,
When you're feeling in the dumps,
Don't be silly chumps,
Just purse your lips and whistle -- that's the thing!
And always look on the bright side of life
Come on!
Always look on the bright side of life
For life is quite absurd,
And death's the final word.
You must always face the curtain with a bow!
Forget…
Always look on the bright side of life
Come on guys, cheer up
Always look on the bright side of life
Always look on the bright side of life
Worse things happen at sea you know
Always look on the bright side of life
I mean, what have you got to lose?
you know, you come from nothing
you're going back to nothing
what have you lost? Nothing!
Always look on the bright side of life
Songwriters: Eric Idle
Always Look at the Bright Side of Life lyrics © Universal Music Publishing Group



We Dutch would say: wishful thinking maybe? IMHO nobody who really need the money will profit from this Brexit. We will have to see what comes up next........

Robert


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3369
Hi Robert and thanks for your comments.

Today I am suffering brexit depression - I saw the VoC debate last night.
Mrs May is undoubtedly a brave and determined character even though she lives in a world of bullsh*t.

If our Political Parties had been aligned around Brexit positions it would have been a lot simpler to get this sorted one way or the other. I suppose that UKIP took us in that direction but Cameron pinched their wind with his Referendum proposal.

I wonder what the ERG are up to now ? Until May goes, any progress is IMO dead in the water. Maybe the EU will fall apart on it's own then we can all leave  ;)

Teess - I agree with yours - it's mindboggling ain't it ?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 02:13:47 PM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Teessider

  • KFers in Korat
  • Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 916
  • No metropolis without Ironopolis
May is deluded. She invites proposals from those that voted against her yet rules out any movement on her ridiculous red lines. No alternative now but to extend article 50 so that the farce continues. Yes there are signs of opposition to free movement within the EU which may lead somewhere eventually. Finally its worth noting that in the last year July 1 2017 to June 30 2018) EU immigration to UK has reduced to 74,000 while non EU immigration has increased to 248,000. Figures from ONS.
Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.
Blaine Pascal


Offline Coolkorat

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 864
  • Whichever way you throw, it will stand
    • Pix Isaan
If the EU eurocrats really want to deal a coup de grâce to the UK they would announce a major EU treaty conference to match the significance of Lisbon with a timescale of two years (preparation, preliminary meeting, formal meeting). Put everything on the table, from immigration to financial reform to farming etc. Overnight, UK parliament (whose majority are 'remainers') would be given a gold-plated excuse to park Brexit. But that old soak JCJuncker may not see through a fog of fine Merlot to make this call. If taken seriously, and done properly, it might fix the problems of Europe (which mainly involves removing the lampreys from Brussels).


Online caller

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 1907
There are EU elections in May, so no such proposed deal could go ahead without the new EU Parliament endorsing it and Juncker will be history in May. It's widely expected that Eurosceptic national populists will make gains so the current status quo is coming to an end in any case and hopefully some new faces with different views will be elected to the Commission.

The news that nearly half the EU will be in recession - again- by then, will help the eurosceptics as Germany starts banging the drum for more austerity. They hold the key actually. QE is coming to an end as the German Parliament will no longer support it, but without it, it's kiss kiss bye-bye to the Euro.

Now is the time for a strong pm to attack back at the EU as the EU is neither ready nor able to cope with the economic fallout, of a no deal, but alas, Parliament has blocked that and May is a twat. Hammond has been caught being a bit naughty in a conference call with various businesses and his traitorous behaviour exposed. Even talking of rescinding article 50. In other times, he would resign is shame, be sacked, someone might have a pop at him, but hey-ho, he will just carry on as normal as May is so weak and not really in charge any more.


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3369
Caller - your first sentence is greatly cheering  ;D  Goodbye to 'ghastly' Claude.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6521873/Amber-Rudd-blasts-ghastly-EU-chief-Jean-Claude-Juncker.html

AS for the ERG and BJ - here's today's DT . . .

''Mr Johnson will urge the Government to focus on the “issues that drove Brexit” and “use this moment to become more productive and more dynamic”. He will say: “Yes [Brexit] was about democracy…but that vote was also triggered by a feeling that in some way the people of this country have been drifting too far apart and in areas where we need to come together.

We all know about boardroom pay and the huge expansion in the last 25 years of the gap between the remuneration of FTSE 100 CEOs and the average workers in their firms.''

It's probably not original to think that inequality has after the transition to modern times, become, the No 1. problem behind widespread discontent around Europe, the USA and the almost anywhere in the World. It makes me quite angry to think about it. In many Countries, inequality is fuelled further by corruption.
GO Boris !

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/17/boris-johnson-brexit-can-unite-britain-low-tax-low-migration/
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3369
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3369
I'm listening to the 'World at One' with some chat going on about Brexit. IMO the BBC are now so very biased, raking up anyone to mention that in the UK they might be short of a lettuce or a warrant or something else really important, for a few days. I'm quite shocked about it. Shame on the BBC.

Brexit will be a major disruption but the UK will survive and then prosper. The Leadership on the Brexit push ended when Nigel Farage thought his job was done and later, Boris lost his way. We've looked and voted. LEAP !
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3369
Caller it's my guess that the EU won't come up with any compromise at all. Mrs May has held the Tory Govt together atm but that won't last long as a 'No Deal' Brexit approaches on March 29th. With this in mind, I hope Mrs May doesn't offer the EU another GBP 10 million for a 12 month extension to prepare for a hard Brexit.

In this Guardian article, a photo of a yawning Tory front bench  ;)  I know just how they feel. And :-

''She was now urging the House to vote down the deal she had insisted only a few days ago was the best Brexit deal that could be possibly negotiated and support instead an amendment instructing her to go back and reopen the withdrawal agreement that the EU had insisted couldn’t be reopened.''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/29/after-two-years-of-no-progress-whatsoever-bring-on-plan-c-minus
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3369
A.E-P in the DT :-

''German anger builds over dangerous handling of Brexit by EU ideologues - A group of top German economists has told the EU to tear up the Irish backstop and ditch its ideological demands in Brexit talks, calling instead for a flexible Europe of concentric circles that preserves friendly ties with the UK. Brussels must “abandon its indivisibility dogma” on the EU’s four freedoms and come up with a creative formula or risk a disastrous showdown with London that could all too easily spin out of control.''

I doubt this will make any difference myself. The EU Commission fanatics have the 27 Nation states, trussed and bound. . . .
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3369
Boris Johnson in the DX today and IMO well said  ;)

''There is nothing extreme about standing by democracy. I don’t know about you, but I am getting sick of the constant suggestion that anyone who sticks up for Brexit must have far Right tendencies. I can’t understand why people are suddenly claiming that anyone who wants to get out of the EU – and follow the instructions of the British people – is a zealot, or an extremist, or Ukip, or Blukip, or some kind of ultra-conservative bigot. Where is this stuff coming from?''

In another DT report :-

''Brexit will be delayed for up to two months under plans being considered by Theresa May to extend Article 50, The Telegraph has learned. Downing Street officials have drawn up a series of options in a bid to avoid resignations by ministers determined to support a backbench bid to take no deal off the table this week. The Prime Minister said she will delay a meaningful vote on her deal by up to two weeks until March 12, just 17 days before the UK is due to leave the European Union.''

Anyone any idea where this going ?
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online caller

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 1907
Anyone any idea where this going ?

A complete and absolute breakdown of trust between the people and those who claim to represent them. Extremism is when MP's openly state that Corbyn isn't doing enough to stop Brexit, contrary to the democratic vote and the party's own manifesto, not to mention the support given to Govt. to proceed. Some Tories are just as bad.


info

  • Guest
Britain's May faces growing calls to delay Brexit

 Prime Minister Theresa May faced mounting pressure Tuesday from her own government to delay Brexit after the main opposition Labour Party raised the prospect of a second referendum.

May has steadfastly argued that she must keep the prospect of Britain crashing out the bloc without an agreement on March 29 on the table in order to wrest essential concessions from Brussels.

But her talks with European leaders on Sunday and Monday in Egypt achieved no breakthrough and the 46-year relationship is approaching a messy breakup that could wreak havoc on global markets and create border chaos

That possibility is prompting a growing chorus of ministers to call on May to propose a short Brexit delay.

"We implore the government to take that step this week," three junior ministers wrote in Tuesday's Daily Mail newspaper.

"We must act immediately to ensure that we are not swept over the precipice on March 29," they wrote.

Culture and media minister Margot James told BBC radio she signed the letter because "we felt honour-bound to actually do something to help prevent such catastrophe".

It was co-written by business minister Richard Harrington and energy minister Claire Perry.

Three more senior cabinet members published a similar letter over the weekend.

The Daily Mail said as many as 15 ministers were "said to be ready to resign".

- 'Free debate' -

May huddled with her top team members before heading to parliament to map out her strategy for the final 31 days of a process that began when Brexit won 52-48 in a June 2016 vote.

Her effective number two David Lidington said May and her cabinet would hold a "free debate" about her next steps in Britain's biggest political crisis in a generation.

But he refused to confirm multiple newspaper reports saying she would offer a short Brexit date extension if her deal fails to win lawmakers' support by a self-imposed March 12 deadline.

"I am not going to predict what the PM will say later today," Lidington said.

The rebel ministers are all backing a proposed parliamentary amendment that would force May to set a new Brexit date if she fails to get better terms on the disputed issue of the Irish border.

Lawmakers will get a chance to vote on the emergency measure on Wednesday.

Any delay would likely infuriate powerful eurosceptics in both May's government and party who fear Brexit either being watered down or reversed.

And those still hoping to avert the split were boosted by the Labour Party's conditional decision to back a second Brexit referendum on Monday.

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn had infuriated many party faithful by hedging his bets and simply offering to negotiate a deal that would keep Britain more closely bound to other 27 EU states.

But he bowed to the pressure from the more EU-friendly wing of his party by offering a way to halt "a damaging Tory Brexit".

Labour's Brexit spokesman Keir Starmer said the party on Wednesday would put its own Brexit deal proposal up for a parliament vote.

"If it doesn't go through, we the Labour Party will either put down ourselves or support an amendment in favour of a public vote," Starmer told BBC radio.

"A public vote ought to be between the option on the one hand of a credible leave option and on the other hand remain."

bangkokpost.com