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Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 22624 times)

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caller

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #600 on: March 12, 2019, 09:30:16 AM »

when they sort out the european pensions.it might turn out good for the uk expatsl living with frozen pensions.canada just sent 550.000 pertitition to aapg calling to stop frozen uk pensions. lets hope it happens.

What is aapg? Is this a Brexit issue - genuine question as don't understand?

As for May's latest new deal. I'm waiting for the advice of Martin Howe QC before I agree with it or not, although I doubt anyone is worrying about what I think - lol!
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Alfie

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #601 on: March 12, 2019, 11:31:49 AM »

Theresa May talks about the legal changes to her deal.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpoKTH8-sx8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpoKTH8-sx8</a>
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Roger

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Re: Brexit - the 'Lazarus' deal . .
« Reply #602 on: March 12, 2019, 01:27:47 PM »

Listening to Norman Smith, Asst. Political Editor of the BBC (Radio 4) 07.35 am 'Today'.

Four key events before the votes today :-

1. The Attorney General gives his opinion on the changes to Parliament - will he conclude that with these assurances, the UK will NOT be trapped in the 'Backstop'.
2. The reaction of the DUP.
3. The 'Star Chamber' of the Brexiteer's legal eagles reports mid p.m.
4. The ERG meet late p.m. - with 1.2.and 3. in mind  :-\

Just for once, I thought this BBC report neatly avoided bias !

It was pointed out that to pass the 'deal' now would require a massive turnaround in HoP.

Has May done enough ? I have no idea. But if it's passed, bear in mind that 'backstop' affairs will be conducted with a 'rumoured to be very different' composition in the European Parliament AND no Juncker to contend with . . .

If we don't take this deal I fear that we might be in danger of losing Brexit altogether  :(   I tentatively hope that the ERG will now agree to vote FOR the deal IF Mrs May resigns and triggers a leadership election . . .

We would then have the consolation of getting Brexit and that the next extensive stages of the negotiations about a future Trade Ageement etc, will be carried out by the UK, much more assertively  >:( ???
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caller

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #603 on: March 12, 2019, 04:24:20 PM »

Lawyers that have reviewed the agreement seem to be unanimous that the rules of the backstop haven't changed. Another smokescreen by May.

Cox wil have to say the same, but will still urge MP's support it. So it seems it will be political decisions that get this vote passed, if it does pass and that probaby means something has to happen to May. Good, we can then start playing hard ball.

If not, I'd reject it and go for no deal.
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Coolkorat

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #604 on: March 13, 2019, 03:48:02 PM »

Mrs May has lost another vote: a turbulent few days ahead! Any predictions for today's vote?
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Roger

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #605 on: March 13, 2019, 04:13:52 PM »

Caller / CK - sadly, I think that the resolution against 'No Deal' will be defeated very strongly, despite the Govt. releasing plans about Tariffs etc. today. But "No Deal' will remain in place in law as a default position on March 29th, atm.

Tomorrow there's a vote on extending Article 50 - maybe for 2 months. That HAS to be approved or March 29th's 'No Deal' default will remain in place - as it will for the end of the 'extended' period, whenever that is. Other resolutions are being tabled so who knows ?

I heard a Pundit say that Mrs May had said, 'no deal is better than a bad deal' more than 100 times in Parliament - after 2 massive defeats on the 'deal' I think Parliament has defined it as BAD   ::)

Heard Michael Heseltine talking today - words to the effect that May had lost control of Parliament in an unprecedented way, twice, and now she has lost control of the Tory Party, with today's 'free' vote   ???

My guess - 'No Deal' will get not more than 150 votes  :-\
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 04:17:42 PM by Roger »
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Teessider

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #606 on: March 13, 2019, 06:07:57 PM »

Re: aapg
I think he means appg All Party Parliamentary Group
See
frozenbrithispensions.org   
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caller

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #607 on: March 13, 2019, 06:43:25 PM »

Re: aapg
I think he means appg All Party Parliamentary Group
See
frozenbrithispensions.org   

That sounds right - thanks.
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caller

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #608 on: March 13, 2019, 06:46:58 PM »

Yes, Roger, no-deal will lose, but that doesn't change the legal position.

I can't beleve May, she should just simply resign. Let someone else have a go, preferably someone who believes in Brexit. It appears she will vote against a no-deal.

If she was an animal, she woould have been put doen by now to put her out of her misery! There's still time!!!

As an aside, I am absolutely appalled at some cabinet members sniping against Cox, seemingly expecting him to have been disingenious with the truth about May's latest f**k-up.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 06:50:49 PM by caller »
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Robert

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #609 on: March 14, 2019, 11:38:59 AM »

Just wondering what will happen now, any suggestions? As an outsider of UK politics I can only see few options now viz.:

1. Ask for an extension but for how long and what could be achieved? Second referendum, new elections?
2. A new deal, do not think EU wants rhis.
3. Leave withiout a deal? I thought voting yesterday was about NOT leaving with a hard Brexit.




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Roger

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #610 on: March 14, 2019, 02:00:54 PM »

Hi Robert. Just MO but shenanigans again in the HoC tonight about asking the EU for an extension. HoC likely to favour a few months duration - EU likely to refuse that.

The EU reportedly favour a longer extension - maybe 1 or 2 years.

If an extension is agreed by March 29th OK - then a General Election, 2nd Referendum - anything can happen.

If no extension AND May's deal fails to pass before March 29th - then it's still 'No Deal'.

I think  :-\
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Robert

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #611 on: March 14, 2019, 02:31:14 PM »

Hi Roger,

personally and I repeat personally I do not think an extension of a few months would change anything. The EU will not give in and the existing deal will not be accepted by UK. Kind of a stalemate I presume. Leaves me thinking only 2 options left now:

1. UK leaves on March 29 and try to have trade agreements quickly
2. New elections, second referendum. Unpredictable outcome because if Brexit still supported (for me should be at least 2/3 of the voters) why could a deal be made then?

What do you think?

Robert
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Teessider

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #612 on: March 14, 2019, 04:39:32 PM »

Surely this shambolic government is now finished. Only hope is a lengthy extension of article 50 and an election or new referendum. May's deal and no deal should now be forgotten. Only acceptable deal is with customs union, only acceptable no deal is no brexit.
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dam12641

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #613 on: March 14, 2019, 07:12:37 PM »

Tees,

I bet you were a member of the Socialist Workers Party weren't you? You exhibit all the purrblind stupidity of such a class warrior. Well, guess what, the world has progressed since the Jarrow March, you obviously have not. You people cling to the so called 'security' of an economic backwater. The EU/Eurozone is an economic joke. Look at the comparable figures for growth: EU vs ? well, virtually anywhere. I repeat, the EU/Eurozone is a joke. It is symptomatic of your obvious socialist mentality that you are always looking for a government handout. I know all about government handouts - I have paid for them throughout my life.

"Only acceptable deal is with customs union."
Continuing Customs Union is NOT what we voted for.

"Only acceptable no deal is no brexit."
'No Brexit'is NOT what we voted for.

You seem to think like a Stalinist in that once the vote has been taken, you can re-define what you think it really meant.

Regarding the recent theatrics in the HoC, the idea of voting to rule out a 'No Deal Brexit' is stupidity personified. How on earth is it possible to vote against something when the alternative is unknown?

The EU is protectionist, socialist and corrupt. Which part of this do you not understand? That's what the referendum voted on and trashed.

Yours contemptuously, Dale.

PS It was so obvious that I almost missed it: you lost the vote. Live with it.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 08:01:22 PM by dam12641 »
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Alfie

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #614 on: March 14, 2019, 07:24:03 PM »

personally and I repeat personally I do not think an extension of a few months would change anything. The EU will not give in and the existing deal will not be accepted by UK. Kind of a stalemate I presume. Leaves me thinking only 2 options left now:

1. UK leaves on March 29 and try to have trade agreements quickly
2. New elections, second referendum. Unpredictable outcome because if Brexit still supported (for me should be at least 2/3 of the voters) why could a deal be made then?

What do you think?

Robert

Hi Robert,
Legally, the default is for the UK to leave the EU on 29 March 2019, either with or without a deal. I'm not sure there's any point of an extension to article 50. The EU have said that the deal we've been offered is the only one we're going to get, take it or leave it. I reckon the best they'll do it give the backstop issue a bit more of a legal tweak so the current deal gets through parliament.

* New elections will not help the Brexit situation, it wil just complicate it further.
* A no Brexit is out of the question. It will cause considerably more chaos and disruption than we have seen recently. I think it would change politics in a very negative way and could lead to the total collapse of the 3 main parties we have now.
* What would be the point of a new referendum? To ask what? We haven't dealt fully with the result of last referendum yet. Let's get that done first.
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caller

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #615 on: March 14, 2019, 08:57:18 PM »

A few things. Really just to enforce what Dan and Alfie have said.

Halting Brexit will change politics forever, that's it's only blessing. What Tees and his ilk don't understand is this. We have had 2.5 years of bitching, whingeing and lying by politicians - the hegemony I have talked of before - basically to stop Brexit. Look at Hammond last night, he's a national disgrace. In addition we have the likes of Tees and others not accepting the democratic vote and doing whatever they can to overturn and challenge it.

So if they succeed, what do they think will happen? That it will all be over? That all those in favour of Brexit, will just say, fair enough and get on with their lives? Nope, we'll have years and years and years of this carrying on and the trust in politics and politicians will be at an all time low. You'll see the rise of new extreme parties and a more divided Country than ever before. It will never go away and ultimately it will still happen in any case.

Labour is broken, already split irrevocably. Brexit is papering the cracks. Everyone knows this. Hence Watson launche his new party within a party last week attended by a 3rd of Labour MP's. The cowards will join later. Corbyn is a dead man walking already, even McDonnell concedes that and it's likely the party will split in two. Same fate for the Tories. Most members are not renewing their fees in protest at the Governments behaviour ]. Deselection meetings are being planned all over. Grieve at the end of this month. It cannot survive this as it stands. Unless Brexit happens.

So, some are calling for a new election. I'm sorry, but why would anyone bother voting? Everyone has been lied to and we have a group of politicians who apart from being gutless shits, don't respect, erm, a democratic vote. So what's the point, with the current lot in place? Who can trust anything they say? it will be more divisive than ever.

As for a new vote, Labour already understand a new vote will solve nothing. It will just continue the pain.

Depending on the speaker, who should be sacked anyway, I suspect May's deal, if put forward again, will pass. After all, what has happened is hardly unexpected. The ERG wil support it but the DUP won't. Enough Labour MP's will to get us out of this mess.

May must then immediately resign, having sacked half her cabinet before she does. Then a brexiteer and new cabinet can take things forward.

Theresa May and her remainer advisors and possibly the whole Tory party will never be forgiven for trashing our democracy. Labour don't come out of this exactly shining of Roses either. This bunch of politicians have laid bare their contempt for the Country and have proved themselves as being unfit to govern. I suspect for many of them, their careers are pretty much over. They just don't realise that yet.   

I just hope another Jo Cox doesn't happen.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 09:00:14 PM by caller »
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Alfie

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #616 on: March 14, 2019, 10:09:41 PM »

Labour don't come out of this exactly shining of Roses either. This bunch of politicians have laid bare their contempt for the Country and have proved themselves as being unfit to govern. I suspect for many of them, their careers are pretty much over. They just don't realise that yet.

I reckon Jess Phillips might be looking for another job soon (or a new constituency).

Her constituency (Birmingham Yardley) voted 69% Leave, 40% remain.
 
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYee7M1CYTA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYee7M1CYTA</a>

And an amusing quote from her:

Jess is asked whether she will leave the Labour Party, as I and others have done. She responded: “I feel like I can’t leave the Labour Party without rolling the dice one more time. I owe it that. But it doesn’t own me. It’s nothing more than a logo if it doesn’t stand for something that I actually care about – it’s just a f***ing rose.”
source


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Robert

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #617 on: March 15, 2019, 05:23:09 AM »

I agree that UK voted for Brexit but why has it not been possible to have a deal to be accepted by both UK and EU after 2 years of negotiations? That is what I do not understand. Extension: what can be achieved in 3 months? Do they really think another deal possible after 3 months extension? The UK wants out of EU so let it happen on March 29.
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Robert

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #618 on: March 15, 2019, 06:31:07 AM »

Could not modify my previous reply but would like to add the following if I may.

All countries would be eager to have trade agreement in order to minimize the loss of income as much as possible.

The UK has one House of Commons and one House of Lords but the EU consists of 27 countries where those politicians all had to vote for the deal. Nobody gets everything in a deal I think. In my home country The Netherlands not one party has ever had the majority. Parties had to work together to form a government (at least 76 of the 150 seats). Compromises has been accepted through all these years meaning you could vote for a particular reason for a certain party to find out that reason has been dropped in the negotiations. The world is not black and white as I have found out during my travel all around the world.

Nobody knows the future.
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caller

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #619 on: March 15, 2019, 12:17:59 PM »

I agree that UK voted for Brexit but why has it not been possible to have a deal to be accepted by both UK and EU after 2 years of negotiations? That is what I do not understand. Extension: what can be achieved in 3 months? Do they really think another deal possible after 3 months extension? The UK wants out of EU so let it happen on March 29.

Far too much common sense here Robert. You'd never make a politician!  ;D
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