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Brexit

Alfie · 801 · 25760

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Online Robert

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I agree that UK voted for Brexit but why has it not been possible to have a deal to be accepted by both UK and EU after 2 years of negotiations? That is what I do not understand. Extension: what can be achieved in 3 months? Do they really think another deal possible after 3 months extension? The UK wants out of EU so let it happen on March 29.

Far too much common sense here Robert. You'd never make a politician!  ;D

For sure I never be a politician because I always try to find solutions to solve a problem  ;D ;D ;D


Online Robert

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Extract from The Guardian:

So Brexit will be delayed?

Yes – on the assumption the EU member states unanimously agree. If they do not – which seems unlikely – the UK still leaves on 29 March, but without a deal. The government motion decrees that the government will seek agreement with the EU for an extension to article 50 beyond 29 March.

It says that if a Brexit plan is agreed by 20 March – it is widely assumed May will have a third try at squeezing her deal through the House of Commons early next week – then there will be a brief extension, until 30 June, allowing legislation to pass. If not, it will be for longer.


Or will the political game be something like this? UK politicians try to influence countries like Hungary, Italy and others to vote no for the extension. Beware any country has veto rights. The UK politicians can then blame EU for not cooperating thus saving their own skin.

I just read latest book of Brad Thor so in conspiracy mode, haha



Online Teessider

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I liked this on twitter from Armando Iannucci:
Yesterday the Brexit Secretary voted against the motion he’d just spoken in favour of. He took over from a Brexit Secretary who resigned in protest against the Brexit deal he’d just negotiated. This is Political Psychosis.
Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.
Blaine Pascal


Online caller

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I liked this on twitter from Armando Iannucci:
Yesterday the Brexit Secretary voted against the motion he’d just spoken in favour of. He took over from a Brexit Secretary who resigned in protest against the Brexit deal he’d just negotiated. This is Political Psychosis.

Well I know nothing about Barclay(sp?) apart from the fact he's been little more than a poodle. But Iannucci is wrong about Raab. But it makes a nice line.


Online Roger

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Robert - thanks for your posts  ;)  Spot on M8 !  ''Beware any country has veto rights''. Yes and for us Brexiteers, that would be great, a 'No Deal' and Hungary to blame LOL. But I fear not.

My guess is that the EU will pursue their masterly crushing of Mrs May and the UK Brexit by an extension of Article 50 of at least one year - however, after another year of 'Project Fear' from the UK Establishment, Industry and Remainers, what might we be left with in the end ?

Teess - respect for your posts even in disagreement - but IMO you are right about this - such gyrations have never been seen in Parliament before  :o   ::)
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Alfie thanks for that Jess Phillips clip - quite a Gal !
She says what she thinks and says it clearly  8)
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Now we face Theresa May's 3rd attempt to get her 'deal' through. . . .

IMO this is the height of traitorous manipulation - in fear of losing 'Brexit', dissenting M.P.s are asked again to endorse an exit, from which the next stage will be the 'negotiation' of a new Trade Agreement with the EU  ::)

Recent experience of the friendless and ruthless style of these EU ogres, leads me to expect more of the same with the threat of a neverending backstop in place. We will not get a reasonable Trade Deal from the EU if they have this continuing control.

The EU has played a masterly game - time for 'NO DEAL' please   >:(   >:(



 
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Teessider

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...but parliament has already voted against a no deal Brexit. Surely it would be a blow to democracy to go that route now.
Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.
Blaine Pascal


Online Roger

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Yes but Parliament's vote on 'No Deal' was an Amendment in defiance of the democratic will of the people  ;)  that being the 2016 Referendum  ;)           

If the EU or any of the 27 sovereign Nation's, should refuse an extension to Article 50, then it is already in UK law, that Membership of the EU will end anyway !

Interesting times . . .

''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online jivvy

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 ;D
One should never do wrong in return, nor mistreat any man, no matter how one has been mistreated by him.”
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The Tory MP Nick Boles resigned the other day from his constituency Tory party, at the moment he doesn't have the Tory whip. He was a remainer but 61% of his constituency party voted leave, and although he supported May's deal, he was a main player in vetoing a no-deal. He resigned before being pushed out. Not resigning as an MP, although he has been asked to stand down. It means his career as a Tory MP is effectively at an end.

Dominic Grieve faces a vote of no confidence on 27th March. If he loses that, he will probably quit the local party as well, rather than wait to be de-selected.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 08:41:50 PM by caller »


Online caller

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One of the biggest concerns the EU had about Brexit was ensuring solidarity between EU states during the negotiating process, especially in the event of a no-deal, which both Italy and Poland warned might be a step too far for them. But luckily for the EU, the traitors in Parliament put to bed all their fears over that.

But the tensions within the EU are still there. Italy can't escape austerity whilst being in the Euro and the rules of the Euro won't change anytime soon, with Macrons plans already on the scrap-heap. Italy needs investment and no-one is playing. 

So they have now defied the EU (and G7) in embracing and signing up to China's new expansionist plans.

Greece, who sold a port to China (as you do), is blocking formal EU criticism of China. Who can really blame these Countries for rebelling when they have been shat upon for years by the EU? I often wonder if remainers understand the reality and future direction of the EU? I can't believe so.

(extract)

Alarm bells are ringing over Beijing’s ‘Made in China 2025’ plan to dominate ten strategic sectors by means of subsidy and cheap state credit. Germany’s Mercator Institute describes it as a predatory system, akin to a war-time structure. Agents of China’s Strategic Support Force are lodged inside companies.

Brussels warns that Europe must close ranks or let China pick off states one by one.  Greece has already become a doormat, letting the Chinese shipping group COSCO acquire the port of Piraeus as the “dragon head” of Xi Jinping’s entry into Europe.

Athens has since obligingly blocked EU condemnations of Chinese human rights abuses and incursions in the South China Sea. It has dragged its feet on tougher EU screening measures for Chinese investments.

The defection of Italy is more serious for EU strategic unity. The country still has the second biggest manufacturing hub in Europe.

In a sense the chickens are coming back to roost for Europe’s policy elite. Austerity overkill imposed on southern Europe during the eurozone debt crisis led to a collapse in public investment and an economic depression. The resulting surge of bad debts in the Italian banking system caused a credit crunch and a vicious circle.

The rigid  pro-cyclical rules of the Stability Pact were partly to blame, but real power was held by hardline Ordoliberals in the German finance ministry using the European Central Bank as their enforcer.

The South endured this contractionary squeeze on the implicit promise of a quid pro quo later. The recompense never came. Northern Europe has continued to block fiscal union, joint debt issuance, and pan-EMU bank deposit insurance.

The Juncker Plan for investment is too small to rebuild crumbling infrastructure or to lift the Club Med region out of the structural trap. The victims are taking matters into their own hands.

Five Star leaders think Beijing can fund their reflation plans, turn Palermo into a new Rotterdam with a $5bn port project, and take the ailing Alitalia off their hands.

They have found their guru in Michele Geraci, state undersecretary for economic development, a former City banker who later taught for ten years at universities in Shanghai and Hangzhou. He has drunk deep from the cup of Xi Jinping’s Leninist ideology.

His original mandate was to close the trade gap with China. He concluded that Italy was unlikely to gain China’s attention short of a dramatic demarche. Beijing jumped with alacrity when he broached the Silk Road. Lega sources say the issue has snowballed out of control.

Mr Geraci has established a China Task Force and has been commuting back and forth to Beijing, circumventing the normal controls of the Italian foreign ministry and the security apparatus.

Five Star leaders think Beijing can fund their reflation plans, turn Palermo into a new Rotterdam with a $5bn port project, and take the ailing Alitalia off their hands.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/03/17/italy-drawn-promise-chinas-silk-road-defiance-brussels/
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 11:20:47 AM by caller »


Online Robert

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And China is only investing in the EU? The Chinese have a 100 year plan to conquer the whole world. Not through war but through economics  ;D ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 11:32:31 AM by Robert »


Offline Alfie

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luckily for the EU, the traitors in Parliament put to bed all their fears over that.

Talking of traitors ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/10/tony-blair-secretly-advising-emmanuel-macron-brexit-former-pm

Tony Blair has been accused of “unacceptable” behaviour after it emerged he has been briefing Emmanuel Macron on how to force Britain to stay in the EU.

The former Labour prime minister believes that if the EU stands its ground over the Brexit deal, Parliament will cave in and accept a customs union - which would keep Britain yoked to Brussels - or a second referendum that could cancel Brexit altogether.

Sources in Paris confirmed to The Telegraph that Mr Blair had been speaking to the French President about Brexit.

He is reported to have told Mr Macron to “hold firm” and wait for events to play out in London that end in Britain staying in the EU.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Online caller

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And China is only investing in the EU? The Chinese have a 100 year plan to conquer the whole world. Not through war but through economics  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I don't know about a 100 year plan, but they have published their latest expansionist plans, which does include Greece and Italy and onward into the EU - Rotterdam features.

But the point is that such agreed treaties are against formal EU collective policy which has finally woken up to the threat of China. They have been too busy fighting the British!  ;D

But why should Italy and Greece take notice of such policy when the EU are making them poor and others flaunt such agreements as it suits them (Germany's gas pipe)?


Online caller

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Sources in Paris confirmed to The Telegraph that Mr Blair had been speaking to the French President about Brexit.

He is reported to have told Mr Macron to “hold firm” and wait for events to play out in London that end in Britain staying in the EU.

I think that Blair should count himself fortunate as he already has 24 hour protection. Anger is rising about the 'politicians' handling of Brexit and God forbid, another Jo Cox incident happening.


Online Robert

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And China is only investing in the EU? The Chinese have a 100 year plan to conquer the whole world. Not through war but through economics  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I don't know about a 100 year plan, but they have published their latest expansionist plans, which does include Greece and Italy and onward into the EU - Rotterdam features.

But the point is that such agreed treaties are against formal EU collective policy which has finally woken up to the threat of China. They have been too busy fighting the British!  ;D

But why should Italy and Greece take notice of such policy when the EU are making them poor and others flaunt such agreements as it suits them (Germany's gas pipe)?

The 100 year quote comes from my own mind because I think the Chinese do not think only in 5 or 10 or 20 year plans. They do not want to accomplish it only for themselves but also for their children and grandchildren. Very different way of thinking compared to the west IMHO.


Online Roger

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IMO John Bercow is quite wrong - the context in which the vote takes place IS now quite different as MP's have passed 'No Deal' and Extend Article 50' amendments. Surely the Govt will find a way to wriggle around this.

''John Bercow has plunged Britain into a “major constitutional crisis” after banning Theresa May from holding a third vote on her Brexit deal, the Solicitor General has said. The Speaker - a Remain voter who has faced repeated accusations of anti-Brexit bias - invoked a convention last used 99 years ago to stop the vote taking place.

His unexpected announcement was greeted with fury in the Commons, as ministers accused him of being “interventionalist” and failing to “respect” MPs. With just 10 days to go until Brexit day, Mrs May is weighing her options to get round the Speaker's ruling
.''

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/#source=refresh
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online caller

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Bercow is a remainer and has narcissistic tendencies - that's the problem here, his vanity and sense of self-importance.

Zac Goldsmith said the other day that an election is an obvious way forward, but questioned whether there would be any trust in anyone's manifesto!

I fear civil disorder is on the way. There's a hell of a lot of anger out there. Even in the Times comments!
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 12:52:13 PM by caller »


Online Roger

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Caller I agree with you about Bercow - a scoundrel and a bully IMO.
Who knows where this is going ? May's deal or even, by default, 'No Deal' ?
I am VERY much against "May's deal' as we know well, the EU will be ruthless in negotiating a new trade deal, the 'Backstop' will come in and we'll be trapped forever  ::)

From the DT :-

    ''Theresa May 'will not seek long delay' to Brexit extension
    PM to write to Donald Tusk today to ask for Article 50 extension
    'The Last days of Rome': How Cabinet divisions were laid bare
    Steve Baker: We must stand firm and reject the Brexit deal
    Jean-Claude Juncker: EU's patience is 'wearing thin'

Theresa May will today request a short extension of Article 50, a Downing Street source has said, warning that voters are "fed up with Parliament's failure to take a decision".

The Prime Minister will later publish a letter, to be sent to Donald Tusk, the European Council president, which will ask Brussels to agree to a delay
''.

''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein