Brexit

Robert · **Reply #700 on:** April 04, 2019, 04:11:53 PM

Quote from: Roger on April 04, 2019, 03:13:02 PM

Hector - 'vielen dank' indeed. A straight talking Lady - thought provoking . .

Anton - have you watched that link ?

Hi Roger,

underneath an extract from an article from The Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/04/europe-family-brexit-children-eu
Michael Morpurgo

There will be a life after this divorce. But how will it be? Leave or remain, half the country will be greatly hurt. It is our insensitivity to the immense hurt all this has caused to the rest of the European family of nations that I have found most shameful. Right from the start of negotiations we insisted on playing it the haughty way. We are the fifth biggest economy in the world. Europe will roll over and do our bidding to keep our business. We can dictate our terms for the divorce. The trouble, we soon discovered, is that Europe too has its pride, and they don’t like being talked down to or dictated to any more than we do. They bite back. That’s what happens in divorces.

Alfie · **Reply #701 on:** April 04, 2019, 05:11:32 PM

Quote from: Robert on April 04, 2019, 04:11:53 PM

There will be a life after this divorce. But how will it be? Leave or remain, half the country will be greatly hurt. It is our insensitivity to the immense hurt all this has caused to the rest of the European family of nations that I have found most shameful. Right from the start of negotiations we insisted on playing it the haughty way. We are the fifth biggest economy in the world. Europe will roll over and do our bidding to keep our business. We can dictate our terms for the divorce. The trouble, we soon discovered, is that Europe too has its pride, and they don’t like being talked down to or dictated to any more than we do. They bite back. That’s what happens in divorces.

From my point of view, one of the biggest failures on the UK side has been the PR side - winning the argument, saying the right things and most importantly not saying the wrong things in public. It's like they acted and spoke at times as if they were in a closed room when in fact their words were listened to and read throughout the world. That said, the EU big-wigs have been just as insensitive at times. It's not like friends that are going their seperate ways. It's just a business arrangement that is being undone or rearranged.

Roger · **Reply #702 on:** April 04, 2019, 05:44:21 PM

Alfie, there's some very frank thoughts from Dr Alice Weidel (AfD) speaking in the Bundestag in Hector's earlier link - says it for me . . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63IcW4eo4uM

Robert - I'm sure the UK side may have put their foot in it - but IMO it made no difference as the EU plan from the start was to screw the UK to the wall - and Mrs May was too dumb to see it.

Off now - till tomorrow then. ATB

caller · **Reply #703 on:** April 04, 2019, 07:01:52 PM

Quote from: Roger on April 04, 2019, 02:57:45 PM

The crisis that led to Brexit was the rise of UKIP was it not ? That led to Cameron offering a 'Referendum'. Not specifically due to economics. I don't think anyone believes that 'Brexit' was/is the cure for an economic crisis.

Brexit is more about defining Britain's integrity and it's role as a trading nation than just economics. If it was the latter, we could have just become a free trade zone and stuck two fingers up to everyone.

I would also disagree that the trigger for Brexit was UKIP. It would be more accurate to say ithe trigger was when Farage became leader of UKIP. But it was only building on a solid base of eurosceptism that was already out there and which had been let down by promises made about the UK's relationship with the EU that were never fulfilled (nothing changes).

The fact over 17m voted to leave the EU proves the point really.

Roger · **Reply #704 on:** April 05, 2019, 01:25:03 PM

Jacob Rees-Mogg was attacked on 'Today' for 'tweeting' this very same YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63IcW4eo4uM

J R-M was not amused. I too think it quite possible to agree with Dr Weidel's views on Brexit without necessarily endorsing her views on Immigration and Muslims. For myself, she articulated on Brexit exactly what I have felt myself over the last two years whilst observing the process.

Before writing Dr Weidel off as a 'Populist', a common trick used to downplay any view that fails to meet the conventional 'wisdoms' these days, I'd suggest 'Popular' as being more accurate - the amount of support for her comments in the Bundestag was quite evident.

''The EU should have given David Cameron the concessions he asked for . . . this Brexit will be costly for the EU, which means that by definition, costly for German Taxpayers. Costly like the Bank bailouts, the Greece bailout, the green energy policy, the opening of the border, the destruction of the automobile and other key industries, and the massive inflation of our single currency . . . .

The UK is the second biggest economy in the EU, as big as the 19 smallest combined.

Onto Brexit for which you are partly responsible, due to your negligence and your failure to help out the UK. Our historically good relationship with the UK is being threatened as a result. What did David Cameron ask that was so terrible? No more social welfare payments immediately and for everyone. Stronger National Parliaments. Less EU bureaucracy. But in Brussels he was banging his head against a brick wall . . . .

(Is the UK) . . a Partner with whom we have lived together for 40 years in good times and bad, really going to be treated like Paraguay or Papua New Guinea ? . . What a mockery. Is it any wonder that the UK sees bad faith behind every manouevre from Brussels ?

Brexit negotiator Barnier, is supposed to have confided in Friends, I quote, ''my mission will have been a success when the terms are so brutal for the British, that they prefer to stay in the Union''. With Friends like these . . .

The EU must be reformed from within. This includes a veto right for Nation States against rules from Brussels, reforming Article 50, granting access to the single market for exiting Countries, and securing the EU's external borders . . . . ''

These are just extracts - DR Weidel bemoans the effect on Germany's EU influence as the UK leaves and the effect on the German economy. She's very 'down' on France !

As Hector posted, ''This is worth watching (listening to as it has sub-titles) whatever your views on Brexit.'' Thanks very much Hector

Roger · **Reply #705 on:** April 09, 2019, 07:12:00 AM

Oh Happy Day

Theresa May told 'you are the problem' by backbenchers furious over Brexit paralysis as they urge her to go for good of the party . . . . .

''Theresa May is facing demands from her own MPs to stand down immediately after senior backbenchers told her she is now “the problem”. A delegation of executives from the 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers met Mrs May in Downing Street on Monday and said the mood among party supporters had turned against her over the weekend.

Mrs May sat in stony silence and refused to discuss her future as the MPs made clear the “damage” she is causing the party, sources said.The meeting will draw comparisons with the final days of Margaret Thatcher's reign when she was visited by "the men in grey suits and prevailed upon to resign for the good of the Party''.''

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/08/theresa-may-told-problem-backbenchers-urge-go-good-party/

Thaiwolf · **Reply #706 on:** April 11, 2019, 09:09:34 AM

Can anyone explain to poor old me??

The EU are saying “Britain must tell us what they want” on one side of their mouth and then “We will not negotiate, the deal is the deal” on the other side. I’ll tell you what Britain wants you numpties, we want a time limit on the backstop – clear enough for you!!
The EU’s intransigence and seeming desire to humiliate Britain will ultimately backfire and they should be punished with a “no deal”. On the same day that a “no deal” is announced, we should also announce that we are pulling out of NATO… look after your own eastern borders … we are tired of defending you!!!

Later we should tell the Scots, don’t worry about an independence referendum, you can go and then start building customs posts on all major routes into the UK.

It’s about time we stopped P***ing around with these pompous arses and start showing our teeth!!

Roger · **Reply #707 on:** April 11, 2019, 01:55:22 PM

The wolf bares his teeth . . .

TW I think many of us are tearing our hair out - those that have any

Today's news - if May's deal is signed up any time before Oct 31st we can Brexit as soon as the Acts are passed. European elections are to go ahead May 22nd unless HoC accepts May's deals before then.

"Intransigent' as you say TW - the Withdrawal Agreement cannot be reopened. But if HoC approves a Customs Union deal, I'm sure the EU would find a way.

Meantime things continue as they are $:-\$

Given the bugger's muddle of May's deal, one wonders if we should revoke Article 50 and then, try again later, maybe when HoC is better organised, we have a new Prime Minister AND the EU might well be in a weaker position.

I disagree about Scotland and NATO though . . .

caller · **Reply #708 on:** April 11, 2019, 03:05:11 PM

German industrialists continue to kick up a stink about the EU negotiating tactics, calling for a fair and equitable deal for the UK. They understand what side of their bread is buttered.

So let's sit back and see the EU rip itself apart, four populist groups - from Italy, Germany, Finland and Denmark (might not be 100% correct) have already aligned as one grouping expecting to achieve about a quarter of all seats in the EU Parliament - then there is the NR in France, Hungary, Austria and other populist parties around the EU. If they can agree to work together, they could block, change and turn the current EU thinking inside out. And they all want less Europe. They are calling for Salvini as the next President of the Commission - bring it on.

Meanwhile, Germany is sliding into recession, unemployment is increasing and the future of the Euro will be up for debate again.

And the UK economy goes from strength to strength, defying all the predictions, which should give us a nice buffer zone if a no-deal comes to fruition (which it never will when Juncker and Bernier are shown the door).

caller · **Reply #709 on:** April 12, 2019, 03:05:17 PM

Judging by the reactions of some of my friends who are longing for a politician to knock on their door, just so they can let rip, this Sky news article is spot on.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-backlash-party-activists-fear-hostility-could-turn-sinister-11691211

Roger · **Reply #710 on:** April 12, 2019, 05:21:02 PM

Caller - I think it'll stay hostile but hostile

Loved these bits :-

''Most are unequivocal: they blame Theresa May and want her to go. "It isn't just six weeks of incompetence, it's two and a half years." But this isn't just a rejection of the Tory party and Theresa May, the backlash extends to Labour too''.

and . .

''Canvassing feels pretty tough - mainly people want to tell us we are all corrupt and f****** useless." . . . . . "It's vitriolic. You knock at a door and the people on the other side scream at you''.

Thanks for that

Roger · **Reply #711 on:** April 12, 2019, 05:25:42 PM

and there's more - Arlene Foster, IDS and Owen Paterson after a Meeting yesterday ?

''We have met Michel Barnier on many occasions previously, but this was a useful meeting to encourage the EU's chief negotiator to think again. It was useful for him to hear a combined delegation who could further explain why the withdrawal agreement is failing to secure the support of Parliament. Only time will tell if he was listening.''

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/arlene-foster-we-left-mr-barnier-in-no-doubt-of-our-view-that-withdrawalagreement-is-fatally-flawed-and-new-approach-is-needed-38007375.html

sfs · **Reply #712 on:** April 13, 2019, 12:17:23 AM

Today we have the new Brexit party headed by Nigel Farage and one of the new members is Rees-Moggs sister. If we have a general election anytime soon in the UK I think this party may do well.

I have been a lifelong Tory supporter but never again, so Nigel may get my vote next time around.

Roger · **Reply #713 on:** April 13, 2019, 08:03:38 AM

SFS - it seems we have a few Brexiteers posting, plus a Robert from the Netherlands and an Anton of Belgian origin.

As a Brexit devotee, I just can't see where it's going atm. I was very disappointed to read yesterday, that preparations for a 'No Deal' have been 'iced' - that's the 'No Deal' Mrs May said 100 times, would be better than a BAD Deal !!

The present 'Withdrawal Agreement' is a 'Bad Deal' and not a proper Brexit at all - even now there is talk of approaching the EU again for changes - but they've got us by the b*lls and surely won't let go

Beam me up - I'd like to return, when Mrs May has gone and Speaker Bercow has been replaced, after a General Election in which the Tories will be marmalized

and when a reconstituted European Parliament sits again, after it's coming elections.

Oh Dear

jivvy · **Reply #714 on:** April 13, 2019, 08:57:32 AM

Roger · **Reply #715 on:** April 14, 2019, 06:30:40 AM

Any ideas what's next anyone ?

''Theresa May is staring humiliation in the face, about to go down in history as the prime minister who had one job and failed. Her defining task was to take us out of the EU, and now it looks as if it will never happen. Yet this week in parliament she seemed indestructibly positive, confident and cheerful.''

''Yet people believe what they want to believe. Theresa May believes she can still save her premiership. Much of her party believes that leaving the EU without a deal is still possible. For a long time, we thought Brexit would continue to dominate our politics for years after we left, as Michael Gove or whoever negotiated the long-term trade deal with the EU. Instead, Brexit will continue to dominate our public debate for years after we fail to leave.''

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-farage-brexit-party-european-parliament-elections-a8868436.html

Roger · **Reply #716 on:** April 16, 2019, 05:04:56 AM

Theresa May tells civil service to continue no-deal Brexit planning after 'dereliction of duty' accusations

''Theresa May has written to every civil servant to tell them no-deal Brexit preparations "must continue" after a backlash over the Government’s decision to "wind down" its worst-case scenario planning. The Prime Minister sent the message to Whitehall workers on Monday morning to tell them the “necessary preparations” would carry on - but with a “sensibly adjusted” timetable.

Mrs May also said that it would be up to permanent secretaries - the most senior civil servant in a department - to decide what to plan for and when. It emerged last week that the Government had shelved some of its no-deal planning . . . .''

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/15/theresa-may-tells-civil-servants-no-deal-planning-will-continue/

While there's life there's hope ? $:-\$

caller · **Reply #717 on:** April 16, 2019, 01:46:04 PM

I see that that May has gone on another walking holiday, let's hope she doesn't meet with an accident.

Roger · **Reply #718 on:** April 16, 2019, 05:37:03 PM

Now now Caller

I know what you mean though $:-\$

Just to cheer you up - we didn't see this coming LOL - hot off the DT !

''Donald Tusk has hinted at a further Brexit delay as he told the “exhausted” European Union and the United Kingdom to resist the temptation to just “get it over with” out of frustration. Mr Tusk said the UK would likely take part in European elections next month and the MEPs it elected would be in post “for several months, maybe longer” as he opened the door to reversing Brexit or another Article 50 extension beyond October 31.

The President of the European Council said the current delay would allow the UK to “rethink” its decision to leave as he suggested it was his “dream” that Britain would stay in the bloc''.

Thanks Mr Tusk, but I'll stick with this and stuff David Lammy MP :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63IcW4eo4uM

The Lady got it right

KiwiCanadian · **Reply #719 on:** April 16, 2019, 09:11:32 PM

I came across this on Utube,
If there is court action, I would think that May would be tried and found guilty of treason, should be hung from the highest Yardarm in the land.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBe-X7aFus8