Korat-Farang.com

Brexit

Alfie · 803 · 26066

KiwiCanadian and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3299
As the Tory leadership campaigns get under way, various EU luminaries are chirping in about  'no renegotiation' of the Withdrawal Agreement - it comes over to me as being arrogant and self righteous.

I'm surprised that no-one UK side is making the point that, signed up or not, EVERYONE involved was fully aware that anything agreed would have to be confirmed by the House of Commons and as we all know it wasn't ! So what are they bleating about ?

As for the Tory leadership campaign, why do we have to be subjected to a 6 week campaign, particularly in the circumstances - weeks would have been long enough as the MP's have seen the candidates in action and know them well  8)
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3299
I find this hard to believe but good to see   ;)

''Boris Johnson is the only Tory leadership candidate capable of beating both Jeremy Corbyn and the Brexit Party, according to new polling which suggests he would win a crushing 140-seat majority for the Conservatives at the next general election if he was elected Prime Minister.

The findings come as Mr Johnson launches his leadership campaign on Wednesday with the message that “delay means Corbyn”, warning Conservative colleagues the party will ‘kick the bucket’ if Brexit isn’t delivered by October 31
.''

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/06/11/boris-johnson-course-140-seat-majority-general-election-becomes/
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Coolkorat

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 833
  • Whichever way you throw, it will stand
    • Pix Isaan
Boris knows that all he needs to do is sit it out and the European economy will spiral into recession. The reason the EU are pushing so hard is to press everything through before the crap hits the fan!


Online Robert

  • KFers in Korat
  • Solid Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1021
I hesitated to reply but feel I have to do now. Maybe the Brexiteers could understand that the UK wanted to get out and therefore UK started the negotiations in a not too good position? There is a deal and why should EU start over every time a new government is in place in the UK?

Furthermore I do not like that the me, me attitude is starting to show. I would like to remind everybody that the EU consists of 508.450.856 persons including UK with 64.875.165 persons.  Wishing recession and bad times for 443.575.691 individuals does not look human IMHO. Think 99,999999% do not have any influence at all so why wish them a bad future is something I cannot understand.

Anyway I will stop again reacting to this topic as tried to look at both sides and the best solution but read only UK side so leave it to the British now. Have finally given up to reason.


Online Coolkorat

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 833
  • Whichever way you throw, it will stand
    • Pix Isaan
Robert, I completely understand and respect your viewpoint and I do not, in any way, wish a recession and hardship on anyone. The entire world is staring down the barrel of recession and the impact may be as great (or greater) on the UK as on mainland Europe. This is not a uniquely British view; this is CNBC: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/03/germany-could-enter-a-recession-in-2019-economist-says.html

My own view is that the UK would be better to remain and reform than leave, but this is entirely dependent upon having an EU prepared to adapt to the times, and the current non-elected leaders seem determined to continue on their own (very federalist) agenda. The whole issue of Brexit would have been killed-off if the EU had announced a 'Lisbon2' to review and update, giving the UK and others chance to reform the elements of Lisbon that failed the block in the face of the financial crisis. Instead they played Cameron and pushed the UK into the referendum. I still think the opportunity is there for them to announce a 'Lisbon2' and give all EU members a chance to review and update the mechanism of the EU to balance the effects of the Euro and the debt situation in countries like Italy which are leaning further right and looking at shadow currencies (see https://www.ft.com/content/7a5c20b8-8b9d-11e9-b8cb-26a9caa9d67b. But with the federalists in charge, there is no chance.



Online caller

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 1889
deleted - won't show all message
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 11:20:53 PM by caller »


Online caller

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 1889
Deleted. Maybe message too long, but when posted, text is lost.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 11:29:29 PM by caller »


Online caller

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 1889
Robert, I am more anti-eu as it stands, than simply pro-Brexit.

Britain is entitled to change it's negotiating position, even if too many MP's try to block it. We actually deserve more respect than has been shown by the EU, because whilst they try to belittle and humiliate us, aided by our incompetence of a despised and now ousted regime, we are helping to keep the EU safe, we are patrolling the EU's borders right now, we offer security, we have economic clout, we have an important and ongoing role to play in Europe, if not the EU.

If the EU really do play hard ball - and it's hard to imagine them not, in view of the woeful stance taken by the remainers at the helm under May, then so be it. But please don't complain if we actually do the same.

And if anyone hasn't noticed, even the irascible, illegally promoted and obnoxious Selmayr, Merkels Rottweiler, representing Germany and no-one else, who is deputy to drunkard, has fallen out with Barnier and is making more friendly gestures to the UK now, which does make me wonder what is exactly happening behind the scenes? Our own politicians will be too stupid to notice this.


Online Robert

  • KFers in Korat
  • Solid Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1021
No reaction, just a question if I may?

Did anybody see the movie Brexit, The Uncivil War? I just did and if I were British I would have a lot of questions how this "game" was played.


Offline Alfie

  • Forum Guru
  • **********
    • Posts: 8326
Wishing recession and bad times for 443.575.691 individuals does not look human IMHO.

Who has done that, Robert?
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Offline Alfie

  • Forum Guru
  • **********
    • Posts: 8326
I personally feel that we are heading for a Brexit with no deal. I don't think that is necessarily the best way but having watched the last 3 years between us and the EU, I can see no other option. They (the EU side) feel they have the upper hand (and maybe they do) so are uwilling to change. That's their choice and from their position it makes sense. And clearly they want us to stay in the EU. However, the UK has made a choice to leave the EU and whatever divisions there are in the UK at the moment and whatever shenanigans the Labour Party and Lib Dems get up to, eventually we (the UK) will leave the EU. The EU is looking after itself (rightly so) and it's clear to me that the EU prefer to have us in a weak position in the future. That sure seems more important to them than us leaving as good friends. That is their choice. Up to them. Our choice is to leave. The more the EU side play hard ball, the easier it will be for our parliamentarians to agree to a hard Brexit (no deal). And as I said earlier, I think that's where we are heading. So be it.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Offline Alfie

  • Forum Guru
  • **********
    • Posts: 8326
No reaction, just a question if I may?

Did anybody see the movie Brexit, The Uncivil War? I just did and if I were British I would have a lot of questions how this "game" was played.

I haven't seen it, but it's drama/fiction, isn't it?

There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Online Robert

  • KFers in Korat
  • Solid Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1021
No reaction, just a question if I may?

Did anybody see the movie Brexit, The Uncivil War? I just did and if I were British I would have a lot of questions how this "game" was played.

I haven't seen it, but it's drama/fiction, isn't it?

Yes, drama and fiction but based upon actual facts. Interesting to watch for both sides. It is about manipilating through social media.


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3299
Caller - that's an interesting comment re: Martin Selmayr . . . . .
         
and . .  ''Britain is entitled to change it's negotiating position'' - absolutely. I posted earlier re. the 'WA', ''signed up or not, EVERYONE involved was fully aware that anything agreed would have to be confirmed by the House of Commons and as we all know it wasn't ! So what are the EU bleating about ?''

Robert - ''UK started the negotiations in a not too good position?'' - IMO no more so than the EU, there being serious implications for EU nations after Brexit. Maybe the EU should have responded with some promise of reform for other disaffected Members. Re. the Uncivil War - based on some facts no doubt. But a dramatisation ?

Alfie - ''it's clear to me that the EU prefer to have us in a weak position in the future. That sure seems more important to them than us leaving as good friends.'' Many agree 100% with Dr Alice Weidel, speaking in the Bundestag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63IcW4eo4uM  The EU has had an approach from the start which was bad for US and THEM.

Come on Boris  ;D
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Coolkorat

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 833
  • Whichever way you throw, it will stand
    • Pix Isaan
Quote
Come on Boris

I think Boris may not be what he appears to be: I think many people will be disappointed with him, and all his chest-thumping promises may be a 'false-flag' exercise (knowing that you can promise anything in an election for leader of the Tory party; you can lie and deceive, and Trump has proved how effective this is. No need to be in any way accurate, and it is not a party mandate you may be held to account for. Pie in the sky is completely plausible).



Online Teessider

  • KFers in Korat
  • Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 907
  • No metropolis without Ironopolis
I think Boris is exactly as he appears. A terrible foreign secretary who endangered 1 of his subjects with his incorrect comments, a terrible London mayor who squandered millions on the vanity garden bridge project and some never used water cannons. He now promises to spend £8bn on tax cuts for those long suffering people earning morre than £50k pa. Man of the people my arse.
Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.
Blaine Pascal


Offline Anton

  • KFers in Korat
  • Wisdom in Forum
  • *****
    • Posts: 4136
It is about manipilating through social media.

I think Boris may not be what he appears to be (...) all his chest-thumping promises may be a 'false-flag' exercise

Man of the people my arse.

Robert, Coolkorat, Teessider, let Caller and his buddies in the forum relish the delusion that they are the only ones politically cunning enough to see how special and different are "their" populist leaders, compared to any other populist leader who infested the history of democracy since its dawn until now. Let them relish the delusion that "their" populist leaders are not at all sheer demagogues like all other populist leaders, but highly serious and professional statesmen perfectly able to cope with all kind of situations, in particular crisis situations involving millions of people... Can you see Caller and his buddies finally facing reality in the video below (excerpts from the 1957 film "A face in the crowd")? They don't look so happy and self-assured any more.


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zzCQLyNnIg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zzCQLyNnIg</a>
Village idiots unwelcome here


Offline Alfie

  • Forum Guru
  • **********
    • Posts: 8326
I think Boris is exactly as he appears. A terrible foreign secretary

I agree with Teessider on that and I think BJ will be a very poor prime minister if he wins the Tory leadership race. But if he wins and gets us out of the EU quickly and then resigns or retires, I'll be happy.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Online caller

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 1889
a terrible London mayor who squandered millions on the vanity garden bridge project and some never used water cannons. He now promises to spend £8bn on tax cuts for those long suffering people earning morre than £50k pa. Man of the people my arse.

I disagree he was a terrible London Mayor, living and/or working in London for most of his reign, as I did. He beat the stronger Labour party twice, which was no mean achievement and did many good things. He also had charisma, which as head of one of the World's greatest cities, is really needed and something Khan suffers from, as he has none.

I agree with those tax cuts, so will many London Labour luvvies, who will benefit, as I would have done. Paying 40% tax on what in London, is an average wage was pretty unfair. Do you know how much tube drivers are paid?

As the campaign moves towards it's finale, I am sure other pledges will be revealed that balance these cuts, as it seems that he intends to promote a low tax / high spending economy. But the balance needs to be in there somewhere.

And I agree with Alfie, I don't think Johnson is looking at the long term, if he becomes PM. I think it's mainly a Brexit thing. Personally, as I have said previously, I would back Raab, but that's not going to happen, although if Johnson does get in, I can see him getting the Brexit role again. I would take Johnson ahead of Hunt or Gove.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 12:02:51 AM by caller »


Online caller

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 1889
Actually, I may not have benefitted from those tax cuts after all - glad I'm out of to be honest - now I just pay 20%

Humorous article about the French media and Johnson in The Spectator, I was quite amazed that a jailed and disgraced former Labour MP is a regular contributor to one.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/frances-horror-at-the-prospect-of-prime-minister-boris/