Korat-Farang.com

Brexit

Alfie · 915 · 29959

Robert, KiwiCanadian, caller and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Thaiwolf

  • KFers in Korat
  • Forum Sage
  • *****
    • Posts: 1276
Interesting thought KC.

I think the public have lost all respect for politicians.  Watching them avoiding answers to questions posed to them is now becoming embarassing to watch.

Parliament has now become a pitiful circus whose members do not give a "flying flamingo" for the views of people who they purport to represent.

Perhaps Farage maybe the kick up the backside that the UK requires, but I fail to see how he could become leader.


Online KiwiCanadian

  • Member
    • Posts: 654
I have to agree,
Nigel may be to much of a "common Man" for the 1%'s and the  career politicians to let into the fray and turn the tables on the whole "democratic process" as it is today.
May be its time for a UK Revolution! The people against the parliament, Where is Guy Faux 2019?
I used to have a handle on life........but it broke


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3436
Democracy at work - let's see what happens   8)

Arguably, the UK has no Government now - does the Monarch have any power in these circumstances?

It'd be nice if the Queen could say, "I have no Government so an election must be held" and set the date.

Anyway, I wonder what WILL happen next   ::)
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online caller

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 1919
Anyway, I wonder what WILL happen next   ::)

More of Parliament embarrassing themselves - and the Country - as they do on a daily basis.


Online KiwiCanadian

  • Member
    • Posts: 654
Here is more from a land down under, very well put.

"UK MPs made ‘significant step in anti-democratic direction’"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWTYfkeQF-0

I was supersized that Liz gave her assent to that bill, but I guess she is one of the elite also.
I used to have a handle on life........but it broke


Online Thaiwolf

  • KFers in Korat
  • Forum Sage
  • *****
    • Posts: 1276
 A second referendum is coming. The question mark will be what are the choices.
Brexit or no Brexit?
No deal or May's deal?


Offline jivvy

  • KFers in Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 2519
 ???
One should never do wrong in return, nor mistreat any man, no matter how one has been mistreated by him.”
- Socrates


Online KiwiCanadian

  • Member
    • Posts: 654
Proof that its Remain is from the likes of Sorass & Co
FF to 1:20 it starts there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zan-65HRX3w
I used to have a handle on life........but it broke


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3436
Thanks for that KC. Interesting.

This gives me that Alice Weidel feeling . . . God Love Luxembourg - but crikey  :o

""Earlier this week, Luxembourg’s Prime Minister Xavier Bettel stood grinning on a podium, while a baying crowd of fanatical Remainers attempted to turn what was billed as a press conference into an anti-Brexit campaign rally. Boris Johnson was right to avoid their trap. Instead of holding the presser indoors, as he did with Brexit Secretary Steve Barclay, Bettel reportedly refused Number 10’s request for a civilised event and insisted on playing to the galleries by "empty chairing" the PM. This was a naked attempt to stitch up Britain's Prime Minister, and a vanity parade for Luxembourg's premier in front of the world’s media.

Whether you call it showmanship, arrogance, or outright hostility – this certainly wasn't diplomacy. It is impossible to imagine any British Prime Minister pulling such a cheap stunt on the leader of a foreign ally, regardless of the context. It would be akin to forcing Jean Claude-Juncker to host a press conference at a Brexit Party rally, though perhaps after his treatment in Luxembourg the PM would be justified in doing so
.""

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/18/eus-leaders-trying-humiliate-britain-not-negotiate-us/
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3436
"David Cameron has unwittingly written the best ever case for Brexit"

'' . . . 'For The Record' was written as political tragedy, a 700-page apology to the nation for the former prime minister’s role in what he regards as a calamity. But it’s also a candid account of how he pursued an idea – that the EU can be reformed – and tested it to (his) destruction. We see him making allies, drafting strategies, threatening and begging – but his story ends in failure. He expected diplomacy, but encountered a bureaucratic Death Star whose hunger for power is matched only by its intransigence. . . . .

Once inside its inner circle, he was exposed to the horrors. The directives, the stitch-ups, the knives always out for the City of London . . . . He found the EU to be “peacenik” on security, unable to respond to threats on its doorstep. He vetoed one of the eurozone bailout packages that threatened to suck in Britain, only to see the rules changed so the UK veto would not count . . .

“Whenever there was pressure to transfer powers to Brussels, the lawyers always found a way, but when I wanted to take powers back, those same lawyers always opposed it.” It is a formula to trap democracies: use complex laws and regulation to suck powers in, but never give them back . . . .

. . . He regards Brexit as a disaster, but those who read his book would be tempted to see it as liberation. A great democracy was being squeezed inside an unaccountable bureaucracy, and no one else in Europe wanted to risk their career by challenging it – or giving voters the chance to escape it. But Cameron did. He might, one day, come to see it as the greatest single service he did his country
."

Well at least DC got that right !  ;D

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/19/david-cameron-has-unwittingly-written-best-ever-case-brexit/
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline jivvy

  • KFers in Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 2519
 ;D
One should never do wrong in return, nor mistreat any man, no matter how one has been mistreated by him.”
- Socrates


Online Teessider

  • KFers in Korat
  • Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 929
  • No metropolis without Ironopolis
Rees-Mogg
Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.
Blaine Pascal


Online caller

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 1919
Ah Tees, beware of the politics of envy*, not least half truths. Do you really, honestly, believe that is why he is a Brexit supporter - because of the status of his company? World wide, tax agencies are taking action against tax havens, including the UK. I wonder how any EU changes will affect Luxembourg? None I would guess. Perhaps Rees-Moggs company (of which he is now but a sleeping partner), will operate from there instead.

Much better to concentrate on Camerons book and ask why, after all he has written, over 700 pages, anyone would want to remain? He is unable to provide one cogent reason for the UK to remain in the EU - apart from some vague view of reforming from within, which he details already how and why he failed (they lie, cheat and manipulate, always have and always will - just see what he say's about Merkel).

*Edit to clarify - I am not specifically referring to you, but rather this whole genre of attacking those with wealth and so on, trying to claim that is the reason for Brexit. They might be better concentrating on the then situation of wages being driven down due to the import of cheap labour and the effect that had on ordinary people.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 11:11:49 AM by caller »


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3436
Here we go again !  Boris is under a lot of pressure now - is he up to it ?

I wonder if the Supreme Court would now define ALL prorogations as 'unlawful' - maybe so. Surely there's always some pressing business in Parliament so on any grounds, it would always be 'unlawful'.

John Bercow is making the best of it, puffing himself up as usual - calling the Commons back tomorrow is crazy - the Labour Conference under way and the PM is at the UN  ::)   After the Tory Conference next Tuesday would have been the right time. I mean - just what are they going to do tomorrow  ::)

Can't wait for the hullabaloo and the hysterics   >:(  Come on Boris !  Chin up !   8)
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Teessider

  • KFers in Korat
  • Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 929
  • No metropolis without Ironopolis
Prorogation did not happen, therefore parliament is still in session. The speaker had no choice really. They could of course vote to suspend again for the rest of the conference season. More to the point where does this leave Johnson. His plans have failed, he has broken the law and lied to the Queen. He should resign.
Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.
Blaine Pascal


Online caller

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 1919
he has broken the law .

I'm not an expert on these things and the judges tried to lessen the impact by saying that this matter was unprecedented and may well not happen again. But they have now interfered in an area they have traditionally shied away from - quite rightly. The British people have always been the final arbiters when they vote. That now seems to have been taken away from them and I think we can expect more Court cases in future and a move towards an American style system of appointing judges. I hope not.

Johnson won't resign and his popularity will increase again. He can go back to Parliament and offer another election, it's in Parliaments hands and we all know they will turn him down as he will win, especially if he forms a pact with the Brexit party.

The British public are well aware of what is happening here and won't be swayed.


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3436
Teess - "he has broken the law" - maybe it's not that simple - although the Court of Appeal have ruled BJ's prorogation 'unlawful', the decision to prorogue was taken before this precedent - it seems there was different authoritative advice when the decision was taken. Interesting words here . . .

"Constitutionally, the court’s decision is seminal. It marks the most brazen encroachment of the judiciary on to territory once considered an untouchable Crown prerogative. Just two weeks ago, the High Court in London, with the Lord Chief Justice, the Master of the Rolls and the President of the Queen’s Bench Division sitting, ruled that the legality or otherwise of prorogation was not a matter for the judiciary. “The court concludes on well established and conventional grounds that the claim is non justiciable – that is, not capable of being determined by the court.”

The 11 justices have arrogated to themselves the functions of a constitutional court similar to those in America or Germany. But unlike those jurisdictions, the UK has no codified constitution that easily lends itself to such judgments.
"

Bear in mind that this is the longest Parliamentary sitting for many years and that there have been 3 1/2 years of discussion on the Brexit issue already and NOT to forget that as Parliament would have been normally suspended for the Conference season - closed for just 4 days extra.

I've some sympathy for the Govt wishing to concentrate on negotiations with the EU instead of listening to more hullabaloo in Parliament. The numpties who pass a Law preventing the UK leaving with NO deal ensure that we will leave with a BAD deal - the EU won't offer more in those circumstances.

IMO we MUST have a General Election and that will also serve to confirm the Brexit wishes of the UK population. BJ wants one and the Oppositions don't, because they know they'll lose !

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/24/britain-has-become-republic-bercow-head/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/24/slippery-slope-us-supreme-court-system-now-judges-have-taken/
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 11:49:16 AM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Thaiwolf

  • KFers in Korat
  • Forum Sage
  • *****
    • Posts: 1276
How will a general election solve the impasse.  No party will have an overall majority.  Hate to say it but the only answer is another referendum.
Ok with me if the options are no deal or version of May's deal but if the options are brexit or no brexit,  no way!!


Online Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
    • Posts: 3436
I agree 100% with Caller on this - BJ calling for a General Election - "we all know they will turn him (BJ) down as he will win, especially if he forms a pact with the Brexit party."

IMO evenmoreso after these Conferences - Lib Dem policy is now to cancel Article 50 and not all Lib Dem Voters and Candidates will go along with that. Labour are in disarray. The Tories will get all the Brexiteer votes plus most of their own, barring 'Remoaners' who defect to the Lib Dems.

Surely in these unprecedented circumstances, the Queen has the right to instruct a General Election be held, so that we can have a Government at all  :-\ 

A General Election solves the impasse because a majority Tory Government is likely to result.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 12:02:01 PM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Thaiwolf

  • KFers in Korat
  • Forum Sage
  • *****
    • Posts: 1276
 Hope you are right Roger but.... If the Tories link up with the Brexit party,  they are tied to no deal because that is what Farage wants.....  I am not sure that all tories would vote with the government if they had a majority....  Don't forget,  the welsh,  Scots,  Northern Irish and the Greens could form a formidable bloc.  I just cannot see a majority tory government.
If I was Boris,  I would forget an election - he could lose it,  and go for a sudden referendum. - but then the bickering over the options will ensue!!!