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The President Trump thread . . .

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Online jungle

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Was laughing at that then remembered laughing when Dad announced his run for president 😐



Online jungle

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Of topic a bit
There is hope of a stable M.E yet as
Iran is now assisting Saudi in rasing oil prices by cutting production at Aramco


Online jungle

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Some may find this post I came across interesting
By Chris Murphy  US senator 

“This is such irresponsible simplification and it’s how we get into dumb wars of choice The Saudis and Houthis are at war. The Saudis attack the Houthis and the Houthis attack back. Iran is backing the Houthis and has been a bad actor, but it’s just not as simple as Houthis=Iran.”
Chris Murphy

Secretary Pompeo @SecPompeo
Tehran is behind nearly 100 attacks on Saudi Arabia while Rouhani and Zarif pretend to engage in diplomacy. Amid all the calls for de-escalation, Iran has now launched an unprecedented attack on the world’s energy supply. There is no evidence the attacks came from Yemen.[/b]

   Okay, in a few tweets I'm going to try to explain what's going on in Yemen today, so you have some knowledge to counter this claim that America needs to bomb Iran because the Houthis bombed Saudi Arabia. It's complicated, but now you need to know.


1.   And frankly, no matter where this latest drone strike was launched from, there is no short or long term upside to the U.S. military getting more deeply involved in the growing regional contest between the Saudis and Iranians.

2/ The conflict btwn Saudi Arabia and Yemen roughly dates from the 1932 founding of Saudi Arabia, when the new kingdom took territory from Yemen in a war set off by a border dispute. The Saudis has attempted to influence Yemeni affairs every since.

3/ The Houthis are a group of Shia tribes in northern Yemen who practice a distinct form of Islam called Zaidism. In the 1980s, the Saudis began a campaign to push Sunni Wahabism into Houthi areas, creating massive friction with Houthi communities.

4/ Saudi Arabia sent Wahhabi settlers into Houthi areas to try to dilute Zaidism and increase Saudi influence in north Yemen. The Houthi resistance to the Saudis, and their patron governments in the Yemeni capital, grew and grew.

5/ In the 2000s, Saudi backed Yemeni governments carried out 6 separate wars against the now rebelling Houthis. Bush opposed most of these wars, believing the anti-Houthi campaigns to be doing more harm than good, especially as the Houthis began to reach out to Iran for help.

6/ Over the course of these wars, the Houthi military capabilities grew, and by 2010 they were the most battle tested army in Yemen. In 2015 they successfully marched on the Yemeni capital, Sanaa, and Saudi Arabia and UAE initiated a full fledged war against the Houthis.

7/ Since 2015, there have been atrocities committed by both sides. Casualties are hard to track, but it could be that 100,000 Yemenis have died in the war, and the resulting humanitarian disaster has resulted in another 100,000 children dying of starvation or disease.

8/ The cholera outbreak (the result of water treatment plants being destroyed) is the worst in recorded world history. Houthis refuse to let food & medicine reach contested areas. Saudis drop bombs on hospitals and school buses. Bottom line - it's the ugliest war on the planet.

9/ Over time, the Houthis have turned to Iran for more and more help. The Iranians don't have a command and control relationship with Houthis, but their influence grows every day the war continues. Houthi drones likely come from Iran.

10/ Over time, a dangerous game of escalating behavior has developed. Saudis kill a bunch of Houthi civilians, then the Houthis launch an attack in Saudi Arabia. The latest attack on the Saudi refinery follows a Saudi attack on Dhamar prison which killed 100 people.

11/ Bottom line: the Saudis sowed the seeds of this mess. They marginalized the Houthis in the 80s and thru the 2000s wars. They bungled the prosecution of the post 2015 conflict. Houthis/Iranians have blood on their hands too, but the U.S. should not be a part of this disaster.



Online Roger

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President Trump seems to be finally on a hook - can he wriggle off ? Something fishy too about Joe Biden's son landing a $50K per month job in Ukraine without due reason and this saga may not do Biden much good either as he races for the Democrat nomination . . .

The real blow for Trump will be if evidence arises that he has used his power similarly elsewhere.

"The Briefing Room" on Radio 4 - "Trump, Ukraine and Impeachment ". . . .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0008wm6#play
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Jungle - just noticed those comments from the US Senator on Yemen.
Interesting indeed. Tragic. Thanks.
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online rdrokit

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This will fissile out just like the Russia probe. Left just keeping the negative Trump news in the media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G3CwbySFd8


Online Roger

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I'm not sure RDRO - I didn't think that tube itself was too convincing  ???
- just spinning the other side of it. Fizzle out ? Maybe so.

I wonder if it's a Democrat plot to undermine Biden's bid - can't see Biden coming out of all this too well . . Sad to see Bernie Sanders has heart problems - just MO but he's too old to be President, (so is Trump).
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online jungle

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I am not so sure of him being in the clear as yet
Will be interesting following this with all the conspiracy theory’s and the President trying to normalize asking foreign leaders to investigate a politician opponent  .
Below is a copy of the transcript to me it reads a bit different than the TV story 


The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible.
President Zelenskyy: Yes it is very important for me and everything that you just mentioned earlier. For me as a President, it is very important and we are open for any future cooperation. We are ready to open a new page on cooperation in relations between the United States and Ukraine. For that purpose, I just recalled our ambassador from United States and he will be replaced by a very competent and very experienced ambassador who will work hard on making sure that our two nations are getting closer. I would also like and hope to see him having your trust and your confidence and have personal relations with you so we can cooperate even more so. I will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with Mr. Giuliani just recently and we are hoping very much that Mr. Giuliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and we will meet once he comes to Ukraine. I just wanted to assure you once again that you have nobody but friends around us. I will make sure that I surround myself with the best and most experienced people. I also wanted to tell you that we are friends. We are great friends and you Mr. President have friends in our country so we can continue our strategic partnership. I also plan to surround myself with great people and in addition to that investigation, I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly.. That I can assure you.
The President: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.
President Zelenskyy: I wanted to tell you about the prosecutor. First of all, I understand and I'm knowledgeable about the situation. Since we have won the absolute majority in our Parliament, the next prosecutor general will be 100% my person, my candidate, who will be approved, by the parliament and will start as a new prosecutor in September. He or she will look into the situation, specifically to the company that you mentioned in this issue. The issue of the investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore the honesty so we will take care of that and will work on the investigation of the case. On top of that, I would kindly ask you if you have any additional information that you can provide to us, it would be very helpful for the investigation to make sure that we administer justice in our country with regard to the Ambassador to the United States from Ukraine as far as I recall her name was Ivanovich. It was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree with you 100%. Her attitude towards me was far from the best as she admired the previous President and she was on his side. She would not accept me as a new President well enough.
The President: Well, she's going to go through some things. I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I am also going to have Attorney General Barr call and we will get to the bottom of it. I'm sure you will figure it out. I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor so good luck with everything. Your economy is going to get better and better I predict. You have a lot of assets. It's a great country. I have many Ukrainian friends, their incredible people.


Online rdrokit

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I am not so sure of him being in the clear as yet
Will be interesting following this with all the conspiracy theory’s and the President trying to normalize asking foreign leaders to investigate a politician opponent  .
Below is a copy of the transcript to me it reads a bit different than the TV story 


The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible.
President Zelenskyy: Yes it is very important for me and everything that you just mentioned earlier. For me as a President, it is very important and we are open for any future cooperation. We are ready to open a new page on cooperation in relations between the United States and Ukraine. For that purpose, I just recalled our ambassador from United States and he will be replaced by a very competent and very experienced ambassador who will work hard on making sure that our two nations are getting closer. I would also like and hope to see him having your trust and your confidence and have personal relations with you so we can cooperate even more so. I will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with Mr. Giuliani just recently and we are hoping very much that Mr. Giuliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and we will meet once he comes to Ukraine. I just wanted to assure you once again that you have nobody but friends around us. I will make sure that I surround myself with the best and most experienced people. I also wanted to tell you that we are friends. We are great friends and you Mr. President have friends in our country so we can continue our strategic partnership. I also plan to surround myself with great people and in addition to that investigation, I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly.. That I can assure you.
The President: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.
President Zelenskyy: I wanted to tell you about the prosecutor. First of all, I understand and I'm knowledgeable about the situation. Since we have won the absolute majority in our Parliament, the next prosecutor general will be 100% my person, my candidate, who will be approved, by the parliament and will start as a new prosecutor in September. He or she will look into the situation, specifically to the company that you mentioned in this issue. The issue of the investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore the honesty so we will take care of that and will work on the investigation of the case. On top of that, I would kindly ask you if you have any additional information that you can provide to us, it would be very helpful for the investigation to make sure that we administer justice in our country with regard to the Ambassador to the United States from Ukraine as far as I recall her name was Ivanovich. It was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree with you 100%. Her attitude towards me was far from the best as she admired the previous President and she was on his side. She would not accept me as a new President well enough.
The President: Well, she's going to go through some things. I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I am also going to have Attorney General Barr call and we will get to the bottom of it. I'm sure you will figure it out. I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor so good luck with everything. Your economy is going to get better and better I predict. You have a lot of assets. It's a great country. I have many Ukrainian friends, their incredible people.
That is not the original call transcript from July that the Democrats are up in arms over. Here is the transcript of the original call. No mention of Biden or his son anywhere.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/25/trumps-phone-call-with-ukraines-president-read-the-full-transcript


Online jungle

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Online rdrokit

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Iam sorry RD now I am confused what's that on page 4
Sorry, now I am confused......................which is nothing new. lol

I do think the Dems have 2 agendas, one to discredit Trump and the other to discredit Biden. A lot of big money behind Warren.


Offline Coolkorat

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This has become very messy with the release of the text conversations which seem to point clearly to pressure on Ukraine to investigate Hunter Biden (see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49930863).

The element that is both curious and concerning is the continuing appearance of Rudy Giuliani. He is Trump's personal (unpaid!) lawyer. He does not have any official capacity.

However bad this is (and everyone knows DT did it for political gain; the Ukrainians were absolutely clear about that!) DT will shrug it off. I have no doubt he would be prepared to go as far as a 'Falklands+++' to bolster his domestic position and already has the Iranians in his sights.

I also agree with Roger. Biden is far from clean in all this. But perhaps he is a distraction. Perhaps the Dems have a nuclear option up their sleeves and Michelle Obama will stand at the last possible moment. If she does, Trump is doomed.


Online jungle

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RD I think confused is where they all want us 5555555


Online jungle

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CK ,I think the ambassador got trump of the hook with the no QPQ comment
But it all still all  sounds  a bit suspect
   Trump set out to slime Biden an he's achieved it to some degree even though Biden and son haven't broken any laws it all seems like crazy conspiracy theories
   Can't see M Obama getting into the fray guess its Warren ...Trump's preferred choice
   As re Trump starting an Iran war don't think he will as bodybags don't gather votes Saudi won't want one or anyone starting one now as Iran (allegedly) showed them how exposed their oil revenue is .Have to hand it to Iran clever move and done without the loss of one life these guys are not Iraq
Will be interesting seeing what starts falling from the tree over the coming days


Online Roger

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CK - nice one - Michelle Obama as a late Candidate 8)

Joe Biden does not look like coming out of this very well. Hunter Biden is no doubt a talented Guy  ;)  but it's odd he lands a $50K per month/$600,000 pa job in Ukraine of all places.

In this edition of "From our own Correspondent" on BBC Radio, further question marks - the suggestion that when VP in 2016, by withholding a $1 billion loan guarantee to Ukraine, Biden lobbied the sacking of Viktor Shokhin, the Prosecutor General in Ukraine, who was investigating possible corruption in Hunter Biden's Company  ;)

Rudi Giuliani has brought this to the fore as part of the defence of Trump's current 'intervention'. I'm not sure it helps Trump much ?   ???

As for possible 'impeachment of Trump - maybe it's not fizzling out just yet.

30 seconds in . .  https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00092tf
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online jungle

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Thanks for the clip Roger
All so found this article that lays out the time line of event re: Biden Ukraine 
Like you say I dont think it will help Tump much at best Rudy went after Biden on litte or nothing

https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/timeline-trump-giuliani-bidens-and-ukrainegate/


Online Roger

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A really good link Jungle. Interesting that Hunter Biden had been discharged from the Navy on drugs matters a few months before taking up tasty employment in Ukraine for which he was obviously extremely well qualified  ;)   ???  It looks outrageous frankly.

Apparently some other Democrat offspring may have had similar bonanza - with this in the background the 'Impeachment' proceedings seem odd - unless the Demo's want to clean out some of their own candidates to make way for 'someone' whilst at the same time attacking Trump  ???

Oh what a tangled web ?
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online jungle

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Thanks Roger yes that was a good link its hard to find non bias articles on the net
It takes a lot of reading to get to the facts and I think Politian’s count on the public being lazy and going with FB and social sites and their shortened versions

Cant think that the Dems have a choice but to impeach Trump as he  appears to be asking a foreign power to knee cap a political opponent  (all a bit banana republic like really)
Think the reason no one’s pushing boy Biden’s cocaine issue is half of DC is in the same boat LOL  like  Larry Kudlow director of the National Economic council is a reformed Coke addict and Alcoholic
For me I cant see how they can claim that the Bidens have broken any laws that warrant by passing all the US law services and asking the new Ukraine administration to start an investigation based on what ?
But will say I think they all need to clean up their acts
Anyway all that aside don’t you think Ivanka  and Jared are doing well in their roles  :0)


Online Roger

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Jungle re your reply some days ago. I think that Trump may be in real trouble with this Impeachment process and even today he apparently had a 'raptus' at a meeting with the Democrats. His latest decision to withdraw US troops from Syria has caused widespread dismay and derision.

As for Joe Biden, I don't think his Candidacy should survive as he has obviously helped his Son get remunerative positions in Ukraine, China and ? That's corrupt   >:(

I just watched an episode of 'Madam Secretary' where after eccentric and dangerous behaviour, the President gets unseated by the Cabinet for a period and the Vice P takes over.  So is 'Life' imitating 'ART' in the case of Trump too  ;) 
(I really enjoy that programme when I can catch it).

Apparently Pres. Erdogan of Turkey put Trump's latest missive in the bin   :o

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50080737

https://us.cnn.com/2019/10/17/politics/donald-trump-impeachment-gordon-sondland-meltdown/index.html
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein