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The President Trump thread . . .

Roger · 202 · 8093

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Offline Alfie

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Trump hasn't been President for 12 months yet. The N.Koreans were along this path well before he was elected. I contend it's a different situation now than over the last 25 years - N.Korea has nuclear bombs and the ability to deliver them - maybe already or otherwise soon.

Either they have or they haven't. Your post indicates you are not sure about it, i.e., you don't know. So what is really different? Trump. He has caused the present situation. He is giving the North Koreans a reason to develop (or justify developing) a deterrent from American aggression. The Americans have nuclear weapons and have recently hinted at using them against North Korea. It's only right that the North Koreans develop weapons to counter that American threat. 
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Online jivvy

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Have you noticed that both Trump and Kim Jon Un have strange haircuts, probably use the same barber and trade insults whilst sitting in the chair ;D ;D
One should never do wrong in return, nor mistreat any man, no matter how one has been mistreated by him.”
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Online Roger

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Alfie, of course no-one can be totally sure if N.Korea have the ability right now, to accurately deliver the nuclear bombs that they undoubtedly possess. But all the comment and intelligence seems to agree that N.Korea are close. Even China is sufficiently alarmed by the development to vote with the USA on these sanctions.

I believe you are completely wrong when you post of Trump, ''he is giving the North Koreans a reason to develop weapons''. N.Korea has been working on this for a decade or more - Trump has been there for under a year.

But we can agree to disagree. I'm sure we want the same outcome.
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Just to add some bits from WikiP . . .

''North Korea's nuclear weapons program dates back to the 1980s.

In 2003, North Korea again announced its withdrawal from the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty.

In 2005, it admitted to having nuclear weapons but vowed to close the nuclear program.

On October 9, 2006, North Korea announced it had successfully conducted its first nuclear test.
In April 2009, reports surfaced that North Korea has become a "fully fledged nuclear power"

On February 11, 2013, the U.S. Geological Survey detected a magnitude 5.1 seismic disturbance, reported to be a third underground nuclear test

On January 6, 2016 in Korea, the United States Geological Survey detected a magnitude 5.1 seismic disturbance, reported to be a fourth underground nuclear test

In 2017, North Korea test-launched two ICBMs, the second of which had sufficient range to reach the continental United States. In September 2017 the country announced a further "perfect" hydrogen bomb test.''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

So even the ICBM's were ready to go by 2017 - the year of Trump.
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Alfie

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^ And all done quite peacefully. Let them get on with it. Leave them alone.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Offline Alfie

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What do you think of Trump's ambassador to the Netherlands?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42460055

The new US ambassador to the Netherlands has been caught out on Dutch television after a journalist quizzed him about comments he had made about Islamic extremism in the country.

Pete Hoekstra denied he had ever said there were "no-go zones" in the Netherlands, calling it "fake news".

But the Dutch journalist showed him a clip of the comments from 2015.

The Trump appointee then appeared to deny the "fake news" term he had used earlier in the interview.

The exchange left Wouter Zwart, US correspondent for Dutch broadcaster NOS, visibly confused in the short clip that has been widely shared on social media.

The exchange:
Zwart: Speaking of threat, at one point you mentioned in a debate that there are no-go zones in the Netherlands and that cars and politicians are being set on fire.

Mr Hoekstra: I didn't say that. That is actually an incorrect statement. Yeah, we would call it fake news.

Zwart: Is that fake news? Because that's what you really said.

Mr Hoekstra: No, it's not what I said.

Mr Hoekstra (on archive video): The Islamic movement has now got to the point where they have put Europe into chaos. Chaos in the Netherlands, there are cars being burned, there are politicians that are being burned. And yes, there are no-go zones in the Netherlands.

Zwart: You called it fake news, obviously... (is interrupted)

Mr Hoekstra: I didn't call that fake news, I didn't use the words today.

Zwart: No?

Mr Hoekstra: No. I don't think I did.

The former Republican congressman was sworn in by Vice-President Mike Pence on 11 December after being nominated earlier this year by President Donald Trump.

 ::) 

Appointed by Trump. Inspired by Trump, perhaps!!
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Online Roger

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Alfie - ''And all done quite peacefully. Let them get on with it. Leave them alone.''

Ah ! So N.Korea didn't go 'nuclear' because of Trump.
You don't seem to be against nuclear proliferation ?
I'm not defending Trump generally. Just MO - he has done well to get China onside against N. Korea. That's all.

''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Thanks for that report about Ambassador Hoeskstra and fake news.  ???
Perhaps he should be sent to N.Korea for his next posting.

''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Alfie

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You don't seem to be against nuclear proliferation ?

In general terms, I'd be happy to see the world rid of all nuclear weapons, but it will never happen. On nuclear proliferation, I'm not against it in principle and I think the current system is wrong. It's arrogant, hypocritical and chauvanistic. It says that the current nuclear powers can have them and have plenty of them but other countries can't have them or try to develop them. I rememebr in the early 1990s when India and Pakistan were developing them. There was plenty of condemnation and threats from the usual suspects but then India and Pakistan went nuclear and eventually it all became "OK" with the USA now having a deal with India. And then there's Israel. Not a word of condemnation from the US (or UK?) about Israel's nuclear weapons. So it's not all about the weapons. It's about who has them. If you are friends and allies with the USA/UK/France, you can do as  you please. So, tear up the non-proliferation treaty. it's voluntary anyway, but once in it, they (usual suspects) will harass you (like they are with North Korea) if you decide to withdraw from it. Scap it.

I'm not defending Trump generally. Just MO - he has done well to get China onside against N. Korea. That's all.

Give Trump a banana for his awesome achievement.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Online Roger

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That's a fair argument Alfie.  8) 
But most Countries in the World, including China apparently, are against N.Korea having nuclear weapons.


''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Alfie

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That's a fair argument Alfie.  8) 
But most Countries in the World, including China apparently, are against N.Korea having nuclear weapons.

So? My point remains the same.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Online Roger

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Good morning Alfie - you are working me hard atm !

You posted - ''They are developing missiles to counter Trump''.
I replied - ''Trump hasn't been President for 12 months yet. The N.Koreans were along this path well before he was elected''.

You posted earlier on the 'Survival' thread - ''I'm sure China will be using diplomacy to try to improve the situation but "massive pressure"? I doubt it. Why would they?  The USA should try diplomacy. It's not new and it's not so difficult. Even they can do it. They might even succeed.''

Happily N.Korea is now under ''massive pressure'' because of the new UN sanction cutting 90% of previous oil imports. Surely Pres. Trump's USA have used diplomacy and succeeded, for now.
Is that not what you asked for ?

You post - ''Give Trump a banana for his awesome achievement. ''
IMO President Trump deserves credit for getting China 'onside'.

I'm sure we want the same outcome. Thanks for the chat. ATB



''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Alfie

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Roger, when I posted about diplomacy, what I actually had in mind was talking to North Korea, not talking to China.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Online Roger

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Of course it would be good if the USA could have discussions with N.Korea.
IMO getting China onside and imposing meaningful sanctions will facilitate the process.
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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One way of looking at it, from the DT today . . . .
Good things and bad falling from President Trump's 'tree shake' ?

Think Donald Trump is floundering? Think again – he is on a roll - Rob Crilly

''He was the candidate who didn’t know how to campaign, the runner who couldn’t win. Then he became the president who didn’t know how to govern, who was not supposed to see out 2017 without being impeached. At every step of this improbable presidency Donald Trump was supposed to flame out, crash back to earth under the weight of prosecution, Congressional defeat and historically bad approval ratings. As 2018 begins to unfold, this president’s record is already looking rather different.
 
You might not like him, his manner or the things that he has done, but to say that he is failing is to deliberately ignore the record of the past 12 months. The year ended on a high with the tax bill, delivered with almost unanimous Republican backing and delivering a bigger corporate tax cut than either of the Bushes managed. He has made the most of the executive powers he wields, scything down or limiting more than 1500 regulations on the environment, health care, financial services – and with them much of the legacy of Barack Obama.

Mr Trump was unable to overturn Obamacare, of course, but provisions in the tax bill end the individual mandate, the requirement that everyone had to sign up for health insurance and one of the elements most despised by conservatives.

He can even claim to have won a war. The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant will never disappear as long as its ideology can spread across the internet, but its physical caliphate been comprehensively rolled up in Iraq and Syria. The doom-mongers’ predictions that this administration’s foreign policy would spark fresh conflict have so far not come true, even if it sometimes feels as if we are only ever a tweet away from the apocalypse.

All the while Mr Trump has been tilting the courts to the Right. As well as appointing Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court – one of the actions most celebrated by conservatives – he has been quietly stocking the appeals courts and circuit. In fact, The New York Times says the eight appellate judges is the most appointed this early in a presidency since Richard Nixon, and the dozen circuit court judges is the most appointed during a president’s first year in more than a century. Even the travel ban – which had been battered and burned in the courts – won a partial reprieve at the Supreme Court.

Friday’s jobs figures brought news of the 87th consecutive month of growth in employment a day after the Dow Jones Industrial Average broke above the 25,000 mark for the first time. And the famous wall is moving ahead. Who knows whether it will ever be built; and it seems clear that Mexico will not be paying for it. But eight prototypes now stand proudly in the California desert near the border.

It took some time for the Trump presidency to get moving but these are significant wins. As the more reliable of commentators have said all along, watch not what Mr Trump says and tweets but what he does. This list of accomplishments is a reminder of what he was elected to do. They are real, consequential and popular with his supporters. This has implications for his opponents, who still believe they need do nothing more than be ready for when Mr Trump fails under the weight of his own bluster.

For the time being he still has Congress and the majority of governors across the nation as goes about reshaping the country in his own image. Look beyond the Russia investigation, Twitter spats and boorish behaviour. Ignore the impeachment clamour and the mix of studied ignorance and political naivety laid bare in Michael Wolff’s new book “Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House” and this is still a president with real power and one who has now gained momentum
.''

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/05/think-donald-trump-floundering-think-roll/
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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So much for President Trump being ''on a roll''   ;)

The Guardian : ''Donald Trump has been branded a shocking and shameful racist after it was credibly reported he had described African nations, as well as Haiti and El Salvador as “shitholes” and questioned why so many of their citizens had ever been permitted to enter America.''

Whoops !  ::)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/12/unkind-divisive-elitist-international-outcry-over-trumps-shithole-countries-remark
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Alfie

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And now for a brief intermission ...


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSuregWhlWk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSuregWhlWk</a>
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Online Roger

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Alfie first thanks for that Talking Heads bit - enjoyed it  :)

Moving on, whilst Ivanka Trump networks with N.Korea's second worst war hooligan at the Winter Olympics, husband Jared has problems with the Russia Inquiry and his own security clearance :-

''Jared Kushner has access to top secret intelligence withdrawn – One reason that Kushner has been unable to obtain clearance has been his extensive contacts with foreign officials, the Washington Post reported on Tuesday, citing unnamed government officials. The report said that officials in four foreign countries – the United Arab Emirates, China, Israel and Mexico – have discussed ways to manipulate Kushner based on his business debts and inexperience''.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/27/jared-kushner-security-clearance-downgrade-secret-classified-information

And and and :-

I saw somewhere that Pres. Trump is apparently frightened of 'stairs' for some reason. Notwithstanding :-

'''I'd run in even if I didn't have a weapon', says Trump about Florida shooting.

Donald Trump has renewed his criticism of an armed sheriff’s deputy who failed to enter a high school in Parkland, Florida, during a mass shooting this month, saying he would have run into the building even if he did not possess a weapon. Addressing a gathering of 39 state governors at the White House, Trump said officers who were outside the school at the time of the shooting “weren’t exactly medal of honor winners”.

“The way they performed was really a disgrace,” he added. “I really believe I’d run in there even if I didn’t have a weapo
n.”''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/26/gun-control-laws-nra-congress-return-recess

There we are then . . .

''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Alfie

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President Trump has sacked Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, replacing him with the director of the CIA, Mike Pompeo.

The president nominated Gina Haspel to become the first woman director of the CIA.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Online Roger

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It was on the news wires earlier that Tillerson had spoken out against Russia over the Skripals although Pres. Trump has been more reserved. Implications about Trump and Russia again.
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein