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Premier League and other football chat 2017/8

Roger · 147 · 5639

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Online Roger

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Alfie - 'not available' ? What happened ? ATB
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Alfie

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Try one of these, Roger.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QtBkWUvF5g" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QtBkWUvF5g</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpIRKjlm1mA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpIRKjlm1mA</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69iJTnvgbC0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69iJTnvgbC0</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C30JPBM4kAk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C30JPBM4kAk</a>


Online Roger

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Thanks Alfie. That's unbelievable. Hilarious !
No suspicion of match fixing going on ?
The Goalie must have been concussed surely.
If not, he would have been concussed on returning to the dressing room   ;)
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Just a quick three.

Alexis Sanchez - Man City won't pay a £35 million fee in Jan as in June he's a free agent.
Is that a bit short sighted, because presumably, he'll be signing a 5 year contract ?
Also as there's no fee, his wage demands will go up in June and Man Utd might sign him in the meantime. But I see the point  ::)  35 million of 'em !

We sometimes bemoan the dearth of English players in our leagues. Christian Walton, 22 on Brighton's books, is on loan to Wigan and playing well. He's played for England Under 19, 20 and 21 but is 4th choice for the EPL team - thus the loan. Matthew Ryan is the Brighton keeper, then Niki Maenpaa (Finland) and Tim Krul (Holland). (I follow this because I know his Mum and step Dad). Walton's 4 year contract at Brighton is up this season - I'm guessing Wigan will offer him a fat deal as they just have to Nick Powell, ex Man Utd. MMmmm.

Kieffer Moore signs for Barnsley from Ipswich/Rotherham - joining Angus MacDoanald, ex TUFC too. BTW TUFC look stuffed ! Proper !
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Alfie

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Interesting. Ipswich loaned Moore out to Rotherham on a season loan becaue he wasn't good enough to play for Ipswich. Moore is successful at Rotherham then Ipswich recall Moore only to sell him. Ipswich desperate for money? They bought Moore cheap - for 10 or 20,000 pounds, played him 11 times as a sub, got some money from Rotherham for the loan spell and, apparently, had him up for sale at a high price, according to the Peterbourough manager. Too expensive for Posh but not for Barnsley. Moore is listed as a substitute today against Wolves. Still, if Barnsley go down this season, they've got a proven League 1 goal scorer on their books for next season.


Online Roger

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Man Utd have signed Alexis Sanchez, (just about). A report in today's DT :-

''Manchester United’s breathtaking deal to sign Alexis Sanchez is worth around £180 million after the forward agreed a four-and-a-half-year contract. The 29 year-old will be paid £14m a year after tax - just under £27m a year before tax - to join United, on top of his £30m valuation, £20m signing-on fee, and an agents’ fee worth more than £10m.
 
That all adds up to around £180m for a player who had entered the final six months of his Arsenal contract and goes some way to explaining why Manchester City walked away from negotiations. Similarly, despite Antonio Conte admitting his admiration of the Chilean, Chelsea, who went close to signing Sanchez last summer, would not match the figures on offer at Old Trafford. Despite widespread acknowledgment over what a talented player he is, there is astonishment among clubs and agents over the numbers involved in the Sanchez deal
.''

Nice work if you can get it - but IMO (as a Luddite) bad for the game we love ! This transfer brings the crazy money taken by a few in the aspiring China league, into Europe - exceeding what was paid to Neymar on leaving Barca for PSG ! Madness. I hope that Man Utd do not get good value - maybe to deter the others !

Inevitably we'll pay for this trend in the cost of TV access and gate entrance - it cannot be otherwise. And the big clubs will have to battle for a bigger slice of the TV money leaving the beleagured smaller Clubs to suffer. Disgraceful. Shame on Man Utd IMO.

To recap - that's £20 million signing on fee and £500K a week. Shame on you Man Utd.
It really is too late even to hope that a 'maximum wage' can be implemented to bring some sense to the 'Casino' game we have now. Shocking. Just MHO.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/01/17/alexis-sanchez-agrees-four-year-manchester-united-contract-arsenal/
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online caller

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I personally doubt some of the figures quoted.

United entering the race directly led to City pulling out as the agent wanted to increase everything on offer and City simply walked away. It also undermined the players own claim that City were his preferred destination. So now Sanchez has only two options, stay at Arsenal or go to Old Trafford. That is in Man U's favour and I doubt at the end he will get much more than City were originally offering.

In an article about why City pulled out, agents fees of £5m were quoted and now they are reported as being between £5 - £10m, still crazy, but not necessarily £10m. And that applies to all the other figures the Telegraph have quoted - They are all at the top end of what has been reported elsewhere. 


Online Roger

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Hi Caller and thanks for that. I hope you are right and that the DT figures are much exaggerated ! Interesting time at Arsenal generally - apart from the Sanchez 'departure', Walcott (19 goals last season and 65 in a 270 game career) is off to Everton, supersub Giroux unwanted and rumoured to be off (73 goals in a 177 game career) just as Aubameyang might be arriving - Aubameyang had better be useful to replace those 3 !

Has Antonio Conte at Chelsea lost his touch ? Apparently an approach for West Ham's beleagured Andy Carroll has faltered due to an injury but they are looking at the everlovable Peter Crouch at Stoke City. Just MO but 2 odd targets for a top 6 side ?

The terrible saga surrounding Barry Bennell, once a Coach at Crewe and other Clubs, has gone to Court. A witness has said, "Four people from teams I have played with, with Bennell, have taken their own lives." That includes the much missed Gary Speed, one of Football's nice Guys.
R.I.P.
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Re. the predictions thread - the sublime Teess is walking away with it - no one can catch him ? Caller in second position may be a little more vulnerable and in the sights of those below.
So - on your mettle Caller !

The EIGHTH EPL Manager has said 'Goodbye' to his Lads this season - Marco Silva from Watford. Inside track is that he had his head turned by possibilities at Everton, but evenso, ain't it bonkers that a small Club in 8th position sacks it's Manager - presumably appointed with great wisdom at the time ? Sweet Lord don't these BoD's realise that only One team can be top and another 3 in the Champs League places etc. ?

Robin Van Persie has shuffled his highly paid feet from Fenerbahce to Feyenoord.

Later reports of the Sanchez bounty quote a measly £300K per week which is something over
Baht 13,000,000 per week. I'm not a Man Utd fan myself - but I think if Sanchez can get on with JM OK, he could give Man Utd a real lift for a year or two. It's a great season IMO.

And come on TUFC !



''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Arsenal v Everton is a fascinating fixture on Saturday - Everton's Walcott, with 2 goals in his first game, will be looking to make his mark. I saw a comment that last season, Sanchez 30, Walcott 19 and Giroud 16, scored 67% of Arsenal's total goals - all 3 gone in the transfer window. Arsenals 2 new signings Aubemayang and Mikhitaryan combined well at Dortmund apparently so with Ozil on his fat new contract - will they impact on Arsenal's so far poor season ?

I hope Giroud does well at Chelsea - he scored over 100 goals in 250 games (approx) for Arsenal and couldn't get a regular game ?

There should be an epic scrap for survival in the EPL - 4 Clubs are above the Zone by 1 point and 8 by up to 5 points. So any 3 from ELEVEN !

Early K.O. tomorrow - Burnley v Man City - should be good.
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Alfie

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Roger, you'll be pleased to see Torquay get three points yesterday against Barrow, even with Grant Holt playing for them (Barrow). I often wonder about Holt's mental state, or perhaps it's physical. He has dropped down the leagues pretty quickly. It doesn't seem too long ago he was playing for Norwich in the Premiership. Then with Wigan in the Championship (I was at one game where he came on as a sub for Wigan and he set up a goal - an assist), now he's in the National League trying to help Barrow stay up. He's one of those players who stick in my mind and I'm interested in how he gets on, although I sometimes find it hard to fathom out his decisions. Such is life.


Online Roger

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Hello Alfie - I could hardly believe my eyes, a 3-1 TUFC win - they can still make it a 3rd unlikely escape from relegation - but there's a lot to do. The Manager is ok but he's had so many loan players shuffling around it's hard. Looking better atm. MMmmm
I've seen Holt play a few times.

Arsenal's new look - a good start with a 5-1 win.

I noticed good ole' John Terry is still plugging away at centre back and at the core of Aston Villa's rise to challenge for the auto-promotion spots. I wonder if Chelsea would have benefited from having JT around for another season ? Well done JT.

I see Leeds in 10th have sacked their Manager. Hasty IMO. Teess sorry to see Coleman is having trouble sorting Sunderland out - he may regret leaving the Wales job where he was safe !

Bl**dy predictable stuff in the EPL again - I got 2 right at a quick look ! Dire.  :-[
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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From the DT. Gordon Taylor earns amost £1.2 million basic salary and somehow merits a £800K bonus !  ??? At 73  ;) I think this is an absolute insult to all the modestly paid Footballers he represents. Just MO but I can't say I have ever been impressed with anything I've heard him say over the years. A mediocre Manager and a superb opportunist for himself. Out !  >:(

''The Professional Footballers’ Association is under pressure to address Gordon Taylor’s “absolutely scandalous” salary and bonus after it emerged he earnt almost £2.3 million last season - £44,000-a-week. Members of the Digital, Culture, Media & Sport select committee have called for the PFA to review what its long-serving chief executive was paid following the near doubling of the £1.3m he took home the previous year.

The PFA’s accounts also showed it put only £100,000 into concussion and head injury research in the year ending June 30, with campaigners branding the disparity “a kick in the teeth
”.''

You can read it all . . .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/02/12/pfa-pressure-address-ceo-gordon-taylorsabsolutely-scandalous/
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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More on the Moreon Taylor story :-

''You give it to the television companies, who hand it on to the football leagues, who pass £27 million of it to the Professional Footballers’ Association, which pays its chief executive Gordon Taylor £2.3m a year, including a “bonus” of £777,000. When you join the dots like this, Taylor’s extravagant remuneration package of £44,000 a week (higher than the average wage at many Premier League clubs) ceases to be a random example of fat-catism in a society with runaway executive pay and starts to look like yet another hefty bill picked up by the football loving punter.

Taylor, remember, is a trade union leader, whose organisation collects only £547,000 of its income from 4,930 members - and the bulk, £26.6m, from TV fees.
 
Thus the PFA is a rare example of a union being funded by customers, and then the bosses, the employers, the people who own the industry: the clubs and the leagues. For £27m, those leagues would probably hope for a lot of compliance, or at least not too much kicking and screaming from the shop floor. In this nice loop of mutual interest, Premier League players are hardly the miners of the 1980s, or today’s “flexible” army of zero-hours low-paid workers.

In truth, there is not much for many of Taylor’s best-paid members to complain about, which leaves their 73-year-old chief executive to beaver away at welfare programmes or go on Radio 4’s Today programme when one of his players offends public sensibilities or threatens to go on strike.

Football’s ability to look the other way on Taylor’s pay is one of the more baffling blindspots. Even newspaper allegations that he gambled £4m in 30 months as the head of an organisation with avowed zero tolerance for players betting caused no great disturbance at PFA headquarters, where much good work is done, but not enough, judging from the accounts, in the field of concussion and head injury research, to which the PFA allocated £100,000 last year - a figure 22-times less than Taylor’s income.

This juxtaposition has broken the widespread silence on the head honcho’s pay. It often takes an outrageous contrast - a telling single detail - to make people see the thing right in front of them.
In mitigation, growing evidence of dementia among ex-players is not solely the PFA’s responsibility, morally, financially, or in the field of research, any more than the National Union of Mineworkers should carry the can for lung disease among people who worked underground.

The burden should fall mainly on the Football Association, the leagues and the clubs who employed them, with a duty of care; but there is no escaping the paltry nature of that £100,000 commitment in the context of Taylor’s £41,246 vehicle allowance and a “bonus” more than seven times greater than the contribution to research demanded by Jeff Astle’s family and others.

In the PFA accounts we see a £400,000 payment to Sporting Chance, which Kieron Dyer has thanked in his book for helping him deal with the trauma of child sex abuse, and £1.79m for “educational and vocational grants.” This is a charitable organisation tasked with much of the work football should be doing for itself, not contracting out to the union. But then you realise those “educational and vocational grants” cost around the same as Taylor’s salary and bonus - and the whole thing justifies Graeme Le Saux’s description of it as: “Absolutely scandalous.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/02/13/footballs-blindspot-gordon-taylors-scandalous-salary-baffling/
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Teessider

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While Taylor's salary is indeed a disgrace it is symptomatic of the inflated remuneration of top execs. Other examples are university vice chancellors, the execs in banking who preside over failing institutions,  bosses at the like of Carillion, Stagecoach, Water companies, energy companies et al. Meanwhile Juan Mata has in operation a charity where footballers donate  1%  off their salary. Many have joined this laudable scheme but alas none of his team mates at Old Trafford.
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Online caller

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Or looking at it another way, probably the most successful trade union ever - Jimmy Hill will be proud.

I too am against such huge salaries but at least in this case it really isn't costing Joe Public anything and Tees has given examples of much worthier targets The Telegraph should be aiming for.


Online Roger

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While Taylor's salary is indeed a disgrace it is symptomatic of the inflated remuneration of top execs. Other examples are university vice chancellors, the execs in banking who preside over failing institutions,  bosses at the like of Carillion, Stagecoach, Water companies, energy companies et al.

Teess - I agree with you 100% on this.

Or looking at it another way, probably the most successful trade union ever - Jimmy Hill will be proud.

Caller - With respect I disagree with your comment 100%. The £26.6 million from TV fees is a simple windfall for which I doubt Taylor can take much credit. IMO his salary should have been based on the standard of care achieved for his Members - which frankly isn't great !

Fulham was my team as a Lad and from what I know about Jimmy Hill, I doubt he would be much impressed with Taylor's 'achievements'. Many many hundreds if not thousands of talented British players have been pushed down the Leagues by the arrival of hordes of often mediocre Foreign players and exist on paltry non-contract terms with little job security and scant hope of any progression after their short careers. Many Professionals exist on £300 pw while Taylor takes his £44,000 ! (plus bonuses).

I would revise your comment to, 'the LEAST successful Trade Union ever'.
When the revolution comes, me 'n Teess will sort Taylor out  ;) ATB


« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 04:54:57 AM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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I was sad to see that Ryan Mason's career is over. I guess he will be OK financially but evenso, he'll miss the game for sure.

''Hull City midfielder Ryan Mason has been forced to retire at the age of 26 as a result of the fractured skull he suffered against Chelsea in 2017. Mason, who won one cap for England in 2015, had to have surgery after a clash of heads with defender Gary Cahill. His decision to retire follows "the guidance of numerous world-renowned neurologists and neuro surgeons".

He said he had "worked tirelessly" to play again but "the risks involved had given him no option but to retire". Mason started his career with Tottenham and joined Hull for a club record fee, believed to be about £13m, in August 2016.''

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43045432
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online caller

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Caller - With respect I disagree with your comment 100%. The £26.6 million from TV fees is a simple windfall for which I doubt Taylor can take much credit. IMO his salary should have been based on the standard of care achieved for his Members - which frankly isn't great !

 Many many hundreds if not thousands of talented British players have been pushed down the Leagues by the arrival of hordes of often mediocre Foreign players and exist on paltry non-contract terms with little job security and scant hope of any progression after their short careers. Many Professionals exist on £300 pw while Taylor takes his £44,000 ! (plus bonuses).

Well for a start, £300pw is below the minimum wage based on working 40 hours per week.

why do you doubt Taylor had much to do with the amount received from TV fees? I'd suggest he had everything to do with it. That's his job.

As for professional players from abroad playing in the UK, there's little the PFA or anyone can do to challenge EU law and rulings. Have you forgotten the Bosman ruling? A side effect was to ban the '3 foreigner rule' most Countries adopted and free movement was allowed, just as for everyone. Blame the eu for that, not Taylor.

Lastly, the average League 2 salary is in excess of £40k per annum - that's the average - younger and fringe players will bring that average down. Just do the research it's out there.

You obviously don't like the guy and my main point was that as an overpaid exec, which I agree with, he really hasn't cost Joe Public a penny, many others have and appear to have been left unscathed as a consequence.


Online Roger

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Hi Caller.

IMO Gordon Taylor is self-serving and has been in the job far too long - 37 years. I have seldom seen him talk with any authority or clarity over some difficult issues. I've always thought he was greedy on the salary front. He could have retired 8 years ago on his no doubt fat pension.

I'd be surprised if the fees the PFA receive are anything other than a % of the Broadcasting Rights that the Buyers find acceptable - after all, the PFA do not own those rights to sell.

Taylor has cost Joe Public a penny, as soon as they subscribe to Sky etc. Indirectly maybe, and his £2.3 million goes out of the game instead of to injured players etc.

I think Jimmy Hill would be spinning in his grave - after all, when he first enabled Johnny Haynes to get £100 weekly, that would have been about 5 times the UK average wage ? Taylor's £2,300,000 is maybe 75 times the average wage in the UK now.

The PFA is not a large organisation but apparently Taylor is the highest paid Trade Union leader, IN THE WORLD !  ???

Just some reasons why I don't like him. ATB

''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein