Korat-Farang.com

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcoming new members: please email your details and preferred username to admin@korat-farang.com. We will set up your membership and email a temporary password for you to change.

Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Double-track railway line through Korat Muang district to be elevated?  (Read 1411 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Alfie

  • Forum Guru
  • **********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8294

This is going to be discussed in Korat on 22 August 22 when Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha will lead the cabinet's first meeting outside Bangkok in Nakhon Ratchasima province. Apparently there is concern that if it is not elevated, some parts of the city will be separated as there will not be anyway to cross the railway line.

I'm not sure how advanced the planning and implementation stage is on the double-track railway, but one would think that this sort of thing would be planned well in advanced. Even in Thailand.
Logged
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Anton

  • KFers in Korat
  • Wisdom in Forum
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4128

Apparently there is concern that if it is not elevated, some parts of the city will be separated as there will not be anyway to cross the railway line.

They learned a lesson from the existing old line: central subdistrict is suffering of lack of crossing points.

I'm not sure how advanced the planning and implementation stage is on the double-track railway, but one would think that this sort of thing would be planned well in advanced. Even in Thailand.

I have a feeling they are planning it very much in advance. Very very much. Very very very much. If you get what I mean.
Logged
Village idiots unwelcome here

Anton

  • KFers in Korat
  • Wisdom in Forum
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4128

What is a double-track?

That's easy to answer, it's on Wikipedia too. These photos show it well: a double-track and a single-track railway. I think that most if not all of existing lines in Thailand are single-track only, which explains in part the endemic delays in the system.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 08:46:34 AM by Anton »
Logged
Village idiots unwelcome here

nookiebear

  • Suppliers
  • Forum Sage
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1299

They seems to be elevating the railway through Khon Kaen centre.....Don't know what will happen with the station near Robinsons
Logged
Check out my website @ www.nookiesdelights.3baht.net

KiwiCanadian

  • Member
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 592

It will be interesting to see the outcome of the Tuesday meeting, I don't think this will give clarification but probably more confusion.
The way I see this, (now I am probably wrong here) there are 2 major rail projects on going or rather starting at the same time.

1, the double tracking of the existing meter gauge track, long overdue for the freight & passenger system already. This should NOT be elevated as its commonality with existing track that it is supposed to supplement, if they keep to the meter gauge.

2 High speed rail. This should be elevated, doubled tracked and away from any crossing for what so ever even if it only reaches 150 km/hr. This has to be built on Standard gauge rail, 4' 8 1/2", as meter gauge is not stable enough for the higher speeds.

Now you are left with 2 completely different systems, double track that should have been done 50 yrs ago and would have been a major benefit to the economy overall and will benefit Thailand in the long term.
High speed I believe is being pushed by the Chinese with their "Silk road" philosophy across Asia, but right now its being pushed only for passengers in Thailand, but the "Silk road" is mainly freight, a big conflict here.
If Thailand  has all the freight going on meter gauge then some where there will have to be a change of gauge where the "standard Gauge" meets the meter gauge, reminds me of our cousins in Awstrailia each state had their different rail Gauge, I knew the aussies where screwed up, (Sorry I could not resist).

This really brings up the question, does thailand need High speed rail, in my view NO.
What I believe it needs is a decent double track standard gauge track system, this needs to accommodate double stacked containers.
Get rid of the meter gauge, except in small local areas where it is just not profitable to replace the meter gauge, As in Kanchanaburi.
Normal Standard gauge can run trains up to 180 kmph which would be more than enough for Thailand.

This youtube clip is of the new kenya express train going at 120 kmph, note the reaction to the locals that have not been used to even these speeds, this train is Chinese built on standard gauge. I can see these reactions happening in Thailand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ3ZIsuZZXY
There is a lot of interesting vid,s on the kenyan rail project on Youtube somewhat similar to Thailand where africa had the colonial 3'-6" gauge rail and to modernise they are coming up to standard gauge, but only single track (not good imho).

I think they need to really look at the long term goals, bite the bullet (pun intended) and go for a complete revamp of the whole rail network in Thailand, Start from a clean sheet and this will pay benefits down the road.

Just my $0.02 worth
KC
Logged
I used to have a handle on life........but it broke

Alfie

  • Forum Guru
  • **********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8294

^ Thanks for that informative post, KC.

This quote from a recent article confirms what you say about the high-speed railway being standard gauge. 

Quote
Once finished, the project will be the first standard gauge high speed railway of the Thailand
Logged
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Robert

  • KFers in Korat
  • Solid Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1001

Another article about railway. Source Bangkok Post of today. What struck me was this sentence:

At the junction where the railway is to cross the elevated bypass the track will pass through a tunnel, he said, adding the bridge in front of Sima Thani needs to be demolished to make way for the tunnel.


 News > General
PM tinkers with Isan railway plans

Budget proposed for flood-ravaged areas

    22 Aug 2017 at 04:00 1,030 viewed0 comments
    NEWSPAPER SECTION: NEWS   | WRITER: CHATRUDEE THEPARAT & PATPON SABPAITOON

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha chaired the mobile cabinet meeting at Nakorn Ratchasima on Monday. That included the usual Northeast politicking, with a pa kao ma around the waist, a ride in a northeaster e tak roofless vehicle and some local wildlife - in his case a frog. (Photo by Chanat Katanyu)

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has decided the Chira-Khon Kaen double track railway will be partially elevated when it passes through downtown Nakhon Ratchasima, ending local people's worries the city would be divided by a giant wall according to the original plan.

Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said 4km of the 12km route, which cuts across the city, would be elevated.

At the junction where the railway is to cross the elevated bypass the track will pass through a tunnel, he said, adding the bridge in front of Sima Thani needs to be demolished to make way for the tunnel.

The original design of the section, which would cut through roads in Muang district in 15 places, was due to be fenced by 2-metre walls.

The disputed section runs from Chira Road junction in Muang district to Khon Kaen. Local people said they feared heavy congestion would result from the Nakhon Ratchasima line.

"The premier's order will result in changing the design, with a new round of construction bidding due to open,'' he said.

''The budget will be increased by 2.2-2.6 billion baht," he added, adding this will be on the agenda of the mobile cabinet meeting in Nakhon Ratchasima today.

The change might cause delays to the project of about 12 months, he said.

The minister added the government, private sector and the local people were all pleased with the decision.

He was speaking Monday after a working lunch with governors, local administrators and representatives from the private sector from 20 northeastern provinces.

Assistant government spokesman Atisith Chainivati said effective water management must be carefully considered before construction begins.

Local representatives urged the government to expedite the Lam Sapung reservoir project as well as building water gates in the border provinces along the Mekong River and small ponds to absorb water and prevent floods.

Ministers earlier this week visited local people in the Northeast to get first-hand soundings of their concerns.

He said other agenda items which his ministry will propose at the cabinet meeting include the 5.2 billion baht design and supervision contracts for the Thai-Sino high speed train running from Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima, and permission for the private sector to join in investing in the 8.4 billion baht project for two motorway routes: Bangpa-in to Nakhon Ratchasima and Bang Yai-Kanchanaburi for operation and maintenance, as a public-private partnership.

The ministry will also ask for cabinet approval for a 3.5 billion baht to finance the rehabilitation of infrastructure in flood-hit areas in the North and the Northeast.

Kobsak Pootrakool, vice minister attached to the PM's Office, said the National Economic and Social Development Board has been ordered to write a comprehensive plan for development in the Northeast.

Infrastructure, livestock and plantation farming as well as water management will be included in the plan.

Upon his arrival on Monday, the prime minister was warmly welcomed by locals mainly from Muang district, who presented him with white roses and stressed they were there with "pure intentions", to which the PM cordially replied by saying "I'm also working with pure intentions".

While waiting for the PM to arrive in tambon Hua Thale, Amphon Weerahan, a local from Amphoe Nonedaeng said, "I'm happy. I just wanted to see him because I've never seen him before.

"I want him to help develop Nondaeng district and help solve the problem of persistent flooding. I think he will be able to fix it since he is a capable man," she said.
Logged

Anton

  • KFers in Korat
  • Wisdom in Forum
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4128

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has decided the Chira-Khon Kaen double track railway will be partially elevated when it passes through downtown Nakhon Ratchasima, ending local people's worries the city would be divided by a giant wall according to the original plan.

Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said 4km of the 12km route, which cuts across the city, would be elevated.

At the junction where the railway is to cross the elevated bypass the track will pass through a tunnel, he said, adding the bridge in front of Sima Thani needs to be demolished to make way for the tunnel.

The original design of the section, which would cut through roads in Muang district in 15 places, was due to be fenced by 2-metre walls.

The disputed section runs from Chira Road junction in Muang district to Khon Kaen. Local people said they feared heavy congestion would result from the Nakhon Ratchasima line.

All of this refers to double-tracking of existing line, right? The 1st point in KiwiCanadian's explanation. Apparently with same existing gauge track as there is no mention of changing it.

So, if I understand well, here in Korat they plan to seize the chance for eliminating as many as possible crossing points with roads. In the western side (beyond main station direction Bangkok) they'll do so by mean of a tunnel. In the eastern side (beyond Chira station direction Khon Kaen) by mean of elevating it for a 4 km tract. Nothing is mentioned about the 2 km tract between main station and Chira station that includes the important crossing at 5-way intersection, plus 4 other secondary crossings.

As to the tunnel, according to Google Maps it should be at least 2 km long if they intend to go down before Suebsiri and come up after Soi Mukkramonti 23 (first crossing beyond the Bypass). That would eliminate 4 crossing points including the important one with Suebsiri, and would make it possible to demolish the bridge in front of Sima Thani as they say (will they eliminate the U-turn, too?).

As to the elevated tract, they don't mention where it will start. If it will start before the road bridge near old moat perimeter, twin of Sima Thani bridge, then what will happen to that bridge (and U-turn)?

Underlying all this there is an original design of Korat section "to be fenced by 2-metre walls", and the worry by locals that "the city would be divided by a giant wall according to the original plan". I don't get that. What need of a high wall if gauge and route will not change? Maybe because tracks will get very close to buildings in some points? Was that wall in the original plan supposed to close down all secondary crossing points? Is that what will happen in the central tract between the 2 stations?

Yet another article that raises more questions than it answers.
Logged
Village idiots unwelcome here

Anton

  • KFers in Korat
  • Wisdom in Forum
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4128
Re: Double-track railway line through Korat Muang district to be elevated?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2017, 10:31:37 AM »

Design adjustment will cause 10-month delay in the dual-track train project in Korat

It's not real news as the article posted by Robert already mentioned a delay of "about 12 months". Real news would be if they informed us of when these works will start. Personally I still think: never.
Logged
Village idiots unwelcome here

Anton

  • KFers in Korat
  • Wisdom in Forum
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4128
Re: Double-track railway line through Korat Muang district to be elevated?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2017, 10:01:53 AM »

Yet another article that raises more questions than it answers.

Maybe this news report gives some answers on the route, not on the timing from what I understand.

I guess the key to it lies in the sibylline plan shown against a Bangkok skyline starting at 2:07. That plan seems to contradict what mentioned in the above-mentioned article, as:

- On the left side, track coming from Bangkok seems to come up from underground at Phu Khao Lat station, which is more than 3 km before reaching the Bypass (article says that the tunnel would pass under the Bypass).

- Elevated section seems to be the central one, including central station and before reaching Chira junction, and not beyond Chira Junction (article says that disputed section runs from Chira junction to [direction] Khon Kaen). This would make more sense of course. This central elevated tract seems to skip 7 or 8 road crossings, hopefully including the 2 most important ones (Suebsiri and Phibunlayad).
 
- Then, beyond Chira junction, track seems to go underground again (no mention of another tunnel in the article)


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6Y-GJHrGhc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6Y-GJHrGhc</a>
Logged
Village idiots unwelcome here

Anton

  • KFers in Korat
  • Wisdom in Forum
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4128
Re: Double-track railway line through Korat Muang district to be elevated?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2017, 04:49:22 PM »

Real news would be if they informed us of when these works will start. Personally I still think: never.

I was wrong, works on the Korat-Khon Kaen stretch have started and reached an advanced stage in some points. These two videos posted this morning show current route from Korat central station to Nong Maew หนองแมว station, as seen from train no. 415 that left Korat early morning on 31 August 2017. That's a 26 km stretch in Mueang district, except for the last 3 km that are in Non Sung district. This slow train covers it in about 30 min.

First video shows entering Chira station at 4:55; diverting from the Buriram line under Thao Sura bridge at 9:12; then what looks like works along the track at an initial stage from 9:47 to 10:18; at a more advanced stage from 11:06 till the end. Notice also urban decay along the rail downtown Korat, especially between crossing with Phibunlayad at 1:53 and with Na Rong Ngan Sura at 4:04 (that's the horse stables alley).

In second video, new sleepers already down starting from somewhere beyond Ban Ko บ้านเกาะ station at 2:41; new rails apparently all set from 3:26 to 5:05; then again works at various stages till the end.


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QxhvmueZJ0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QxhvmueZJ0</a>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYPAFjBRegI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYPAFjBRegI</a>
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 10:50:24 PM by Anton »
Logged
Village idiots unwelcome here

Anton

  • KFers in Korat
  • Wisdom in Forum
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4128
Re: Double-track railway line through Korat Muang district to be elevated?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2017, 06:09:38 PM »

In a 20-year rail development plan just presented by the Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning (OTP), there's no mention of double tracking the existing stretch from Nakhon Ratchasima central station to Chira junction, be it in the short, the middle or the long-term. No mention of double-tracking the existing Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima line, either. Or if there is, I can't see it.

Double tracking of the Chira-Khon Kaen stretch is foreseen to be completed in the "short-term", i.e., by 2021.
Logged
Village idiots unwelcome here

Alfie

  • Forum Guru
  • **********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8294
Re: Double-track railway line through Korat Muang district to be elevated?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2017, 10:24:20 PM »

A report from 1 September.

Quote
Nakhon Ratchasima: The Transport Ministry has called off bidding set for today for construction contracts concerning the double-track rail project.

The move follows a ministry decision to adopt certain changes to two sections of the project linking the Map Kabao station in Saraburi with Thanon Chira Junction station in Nakhon Ratchasima.

The budget for one section being altered will rise by 2.9 billion baht and construction time will be extended by 19 months, while the budget for the other section will rise by 93 million baht with construction taking 17 months longer than initially planned.

The alterations were decided at a meeting of various parties at the Transport Ministry on Wednesday, Chatchawal Wongchon, president of Nakhon Ratchasima's chamber of commerce, said yesterday.

At the meeting, chaired by Deputy Transport Minister Pichit Akrathit, it was agreed that eight roads would be built underneath the 5.1km long elevated section of the railway to resolve disputes surrounding points where the future railway will cross existing roads, Mr Chatchawal said.

Other issues agreed at the meeting regarding the railway's construction in Nakhon Ratchasima's Muang district included raising a 5.1km section by 8 metres.

Meanwhile, the Thanon Chira Junction station will be constructed 2m off the ground, while the Sima Thani Hotel bridge will be demolished and replaced by two U-turns, he said.

On the other section of the railway to run through Nakhon Ratchasima's Sikhiu district, the railway will be elevated 3m off the ground at two points, he said.

The details will be sent to the cabinet for final approval as the changes will require extra funding.



Artist impression of the agreed model. (Photo by Prasit Tangprasert)
https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1316655/nakhon-ratchasima-double-track-bids-delay

FYI: Map Kabao/Map Gabao station (สถานีรถไฟมาบกะเบา) is in Tap Kwang/Tap Gwang district of Saraburi. wiki
Logged
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Alfie

  • Forum Guru
  • **********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8294
Re: Double-track railway line through Korat Muang district to be elevated?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2017, 10:45:36 PM »

And an article from 18 September (in Thai with Google translation) also mentions the route Map Kabao to Jira Junction.

Quote
บอร์ดร.ฟ.ท.ไฟเขียวงบ5ทางคู่ ชงคมนาคมเสนอครม.เห็นชอบก่อนเร่งเซ็นสัญญา

นายอานนท์ เหลืองบริบูรณ์ รักษาการผู้ว่าการการรถไฟแห่งประเทศไทย (ร.ฟ.ท.) เปิดเผย “ฐานเศรษฐกิจ” ว่าคณะกรรมการ(บอร์ด) ร.ฟ.ท.เมื่อวันที่ 15 กันยายน 2560 ได้เห็นชอบกรณีการปรับกรอบวงเงินโครงการก่อสร้างรถไฟทางคู่ 5 เส้นทางคือ 1.เส้นทางลพบุรี-ปากนํ้าโพ 2.เส้นทางมาบกะเบา-ชุมทางถนนจิระ 3.เส้นทางนครปฐม-หัวหิน 4.เส้นทางหัวหิน-ประจวบ คีรีขันธ์ และ 5. เส้นทางประจวบคีรีขันธ์-ชุมพร


SRT green light

Mr. Anon Thongsomboon Acting Governor of the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) revealed the "economic base" that the Board (Board) on 15 September 2560 approved the case of the restructuring of the railway construction. The five routes are: 1. Lopburi - Pak Nam Po. 2. Map Kaew - junction of Jira Road 3. Nakhon Pathom - Hua Hin route 4. Hua Hin - Prachuap Khiri Khan route and 5. Prachuap Khiri Khan - Chumphon route

More at the link: http://www.thansettakij.com/content/208928
Logged
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Anton

  • KFers in Korat
  • Wisdom in Forum
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4128
Re: Double-track railway line through Korat Muang district to be elevated?
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2017, 09:34:24 AM »

And an article from 18 September (in Thai with Google translation) also mentions the route Map Kabao to Jira Junction.

Thank you Alfie. The 20-year development plan as reported by the Bangkok Post reads:

Quote
Referring to the double-track rail routes, Mr Chayatan said the short-term plan covers three sections -- Chachoengsao-Klong Sip Kao-Kaeng Khoi; Jira-Khon Kaen; and Hua Hin-Prachuap Khiri Khan.

The middle term involves four sections -- Pak Nam Pho-Den Chai; Sriracha-Map Ta Phut; Surat Thani-Hat Yai-Songkhla; and Hat Yai-Padang Besar. The long-term section covers Den Chai-Chiang Rai and Klong Sip Kao-Aranyaprathet.

Maybe the part I highlighted was meant to read "Map Kabao-Jira-Khon Kaen"? Let's hope Map Kabao-Jira enters in the short-term plan.

As to Bangkok-Saraburi (about 110 km) and Saraburi-Map Kabao (about 20 km), are they already double-track sections?
Logged
Village idiots unwelcome here

Anton

  • KFers in Korat
  • Wisdom in Forum
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4128
Re: Double-track railway line through Korat Muang district to be elevated?
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2017, 05:58:47 PM »

A report from 1 September.

Two more thoughts on this report:

Quote
it was agreed that eight roads would be built underneath the 5.1km long elevated section of the railway

I guess what they mean here is that 8 roads will be fixed by removing existing level crossings.

Quote
the Sima Thani Hotel bridge will be demolished and replaced by two U-turns

Demolish an existing bridge in good conditions, just to replace it with two new bridges? Why not leave it as it is and use the money for some decent urban finishing under it, in the area now taken by rails? They could build a playground for kids of all ages, for example. There's plenty of room for that or for other solutions.
Logged
Village idiots unwelcome here

Alfie

  • Forum Guru
  • **********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8294
Re: Double-track railway line through Korat Muang district to be elevated?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2017, 08:45:11 PM »

As to Bangkok-Saraburi (about 110 km) and Saraburi-Map Kabao (about 20 km), are they already double-track sections?

Some of it is for sure, Anton, but I don't know how much of it. Here are a couple of photos I took two years ago at a road crossing at one end of Kaeng Khoi town, heading towards the train station.
Logged
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Anton

  • KFers in Korat
  • Wisdom in Forum
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4128
Re: Double-track railway line through Korat Muang district to be elevated?
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2017, 11:02:25 PM »

As to Bangkok-Saraburi (about 110 km) and Saraburi-Map Kabao (about 20 km), are they already double-track sections?

Some of it is for sure, Anton, but I don't know how much of it.

Thank you. Looking closely on Google Maps, it actually shows Bangkok-Saraburi-Map Kabao all double-track already.
Logged
Village idiots unwelcome here

Roger

  • KFers beyond Korat
  • Forum Wizard
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3177
Re: Double-track railway line through Korat Muang district to be elevated?
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2018, 05:38:55 PM »

Alfie that's brilliant - I didn't know you were a train driver  ;)

I watched the video and the train seemed a bit wobbly - not sure I'd fancy high speed on that track. A lot of work's been done and a lot to do . . . .

Thanks for the video.
Logged
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein

KiwiCanadian

  • Member
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 592
Re: Double-track railway line through Korat Muang district to be elevated?
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2018, 06:17:47 PM »

One has to realise that the double tracking is only for the old meter gauge rail, this should have been done 30 to 40 yrs ago, but better late than never.

The High speed rail is on standard gauge rail 4'-8 1/2". A completely new right of way is needed for this project.
Logged
I used to have a handle on life........but it broke
Pages: [1] 2