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Sergei Skripal case

Alfie · 89 · 3757

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Offline Alfie

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Boris Johnson says the UK government is giving Russia until midnight to explain how Novichok was used in Wiltshire.

Sergei Lavrov says claims of Russian involvement were "rubbish" and says Russia will not co-operate with the UK's inquiry into how Skripal and his daughter were poisoned until it has been given a sample of the substance used.

So what next?
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Online Roger

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What next indeed ? Reposted to this thread - a chilling report in the DT today :-

''The former Russian double agent and his daughter poisoned by a deadly nerve agent will either die or be crippled by their exposure to Novichok, according to the whistleblower who alerted the world to Russia’s secret chemical weapons programme. Vil Mirzayanov, a chemist who worked at the heart of the Soviet programme, said Russia was the only country able to produce and deploy such a powerful nerve agent, and he warned that many more people may fall ill.

“It is at least 10 times more powerful than any known nerve agent. Plus practically it is incurable,” he said at his New Jersey home on Monday evening. These people are gone – the man and his daughter. Even if they survive they will not recover. That is the terrible damage it does. “I’m afraid many more people were exposed.”

He added that he believed the poison used in the Salisbury attack would have been manufactured in Russia as two, harmless components. They would have been brought into the UK and then combined inside a tiny, easily hidden aerosol spray that could be used to deliver a deadly dose and a “deliberate demonstration” to Moscow’s enemies around the world
.''

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/13/moscow-could-conduct-salisbury-attack-says-russian-scientist/
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Strewth . . . it goes on . . .

''Counter-terrorism police have opened an investigation into the “unexplained” death on British soil of an arch enemy of Vladimir Putin, just eight days after the nerve gas assassination attempt on a Russian double agent. Nikolai Glushkov, 68, the right-hand man of the deceased oligarch Boris Berezovsky, Mr Putin’s one-time fiercest rival, was found dead at his London home on Monday.

A Russian media source said Glushkov, the former boss of the state airline Aeroflot, who said he feared he was on a Kremlin hit-list, was found with “strangulation marks” on his neck. The inquiry into Glushkov’s death was announced hours before a 
midnight deadline for the Kremlin to 
explain how Russian-made nerve agent came to be deployed in the assassination attempt on the double agent Sergei Skripal in Salisbury.

Russia appeared to suggest it would be unwise for Britain to provoke a fellow nuclear power and threatened to retaliate against sanctions, which Theresa May is expected to announce today.
A foreign ministry spokesman said: “Any threats to take ‘sanctions’ against Russia will not be left without a response. The British side should understand that.” Mrs May gained the support of Western leaders including Donald Trump and Angela Merkel for reprisals against the Putin regime that will include sanctions and the expulsion of spies based in the Russian embassy in London.
''

AND :_

''The death of Glushkov came as Amber Rudd, the Home Secretary, announced a joint MI5 and police inquiry into the deaths in the UK of at least 14 people, including Berezovsky, said to have fallen foul of Mr Putin and Russian crime gangs linked to the Kremlin.''

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/13/russian-businessman-close-associate-ofboris-berezovsky-found/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/13/amber-rudd-orders-inquiry-into-russia-linked-deaths-in-uk
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 05:58:04 AM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Alfie

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OPCW = Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons

Quote
13.03.2018
Statement by Permanent Representative of the Russian Federation to the OPCW, Ambassador Alexander Shulgin, at the 87th session of the OPCW Executive Council on the chemical incident in Salisbury, The Hague, March 13, 2018

Mr Chairperson,

In connection with the vicious attacks launched by British officials in London, as well as the statement by the head of the British delegation to the OPCW with regard to Russia concerning the suspicious story of two persons poisoned with a toxic agent in Salisbury, we would like to state the following.

The British authorities’ unfounded accusations of Russia’s alleged involvement in using poisonous agents on their territory are absolutely unacceptable. Our British colleagues should recall that Russia and the United Kingdom are members of the OPCW which is one of the most successful and effective disarmament and non-proliferation mechanisms. We call upon them to abandon the language of ultimatums and threats and return to the legal framework of the chemical convention, which makes it possible to resolve this kind of situation.

If London does have serious reasons to suspect Russia of violating the CWC - and the statement read by distinguished Ambassador Peter Wilson indicates directly that this is so - we suggest that Britain immediately avail itself of the procedures provided for by paragraph 2 of Article 9 of the CWC. They make it possible, on a bilateral basis, to officially contact us for clarifications regarding any issues that raise doubts or concerns.

We would also like to emphasise that such clarifications under the Convention are provided to the requesting member state as soon as possible, but in any case no later than 10 days following receipt of the request. As such, the ultimatum’s demand that information be provided immediately, by the end of today, is absolutely unacceptable.

Our British colleagues should save their propaganda fervour and slogans for their unenlightened domestic audience, where perhaps they will have some effect. Here, within the walls of a specialised international organisation, such as the OPCW, one must use facts and nothing but the facts. Stop fomenting hysteria, go ahead and officially formalise your request to begin consultations with us in order to clarify the situation. A fair warning, we will require material evidence of the alleged Russian trace in this high-profile case. Britain’s allegations that they have everything, and their world-famous scientists have irrefutable data, but they will not give us anything, will not be taken into account. For us, this will mean that London has nothing substantial to show, and all its loud accusations are nothing but fiction and another instance of the dirty information war being waged on Russia. Sooner or later, they will have to be held accountable for their lies.

In addition, in this particular case, it would be legitimate for the British side to seek assistance from the OPCW Technical Secretariat in conducting an independent laboratory analysis of the available samples that allegedly show traces of nerve agents in Salisbury.

Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

We ask you to circulate this statement as an official document of the 87th session of the OPCW's Executive Council and post it on the Organisation’s external server.

https://www.rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6418
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Offline Alfie

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Apparently the formula for Novichok can be had for USD30 dollars (GBP20.95 or 5.95 for a Kindle edition), in a book available from Amazon. https://www.amazon.co.uk/State-Secrets-Insiders-Chronicle-Chemical-ebook


Teresa May said that the Novichok was used to attempt Skripal. Its chemical formula is published only in my book.
https://www.facebook.com/vil.mirzayanov/posts/10216075999916949

About Vil
I'm former chemical weapons scientist. Also I am former Russian chemical weapons' Program whistleblower. KGB prosecuted me in Russia in 1991-94 for this reason. FBI and CIA are also unhappy with me because of my political views. In 2002 published my book "Vizov" in Russian and in 2009 - State Secrets: An Insider's Chronicle of the Russian Chemical Weapons Program where I at first time gave real chemical forumulas of the new chemical agents of the series "Novichok" which are not listed in CWC list of CA.

https://www.facebook.com/vil.mirzayanov
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Offline Alfie

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The UK's response.


23 Russian diplomats have a week to quit UK over spy poisoning

Excerpts from Theresa May's response to Russia over spy poisoning:


It was right to offer Russia the opportunity to provide an explanation

But their response has demonstrated complete disdain for the gravity of these events.

They have provided no credible explanation that could suggest they lost control of their nerve agent.

No explanation as to how this agent came to be used in the United Kingdom; no explanation as to why Russia has an undeclared chemical weapons programme in contravention of international law.

Instead they have treated the use of a military grade nerve agent in Europe with sarcasm, contempt and defiance.

There is no alternative conclusion other than that the Russian State was culpable for the attempted murder of Mr Skripal and his daughter - and for threatening the lives of other British citizens in Salisbury, including Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey.

This represents an unlawful use of force by the Russian State against the United Kingdom.

It has taken place against the backdrop of a well-established pattern of Russian State aggression across Europe and beyond.

It must therefore be met with a full and robust response.

It is essential that we now come together – with our allies - to defend our security, to stand up for our values and to send a clear message to those who would seek to undermine them.

This morning I chaired a further meeting of the National Security Council, where we agreed immediate actions to dismantle the Russian espionage network in the UK…

…urgent work to develop new powers to tackle all forms of hostile state activity and to ensure that those seeking to carry out such activity cannot enter the UK…

…and additional steps to suspend all planned high-level contacts between the United Kingdom and the Russian Federation.

Let me start with the immediate actions.

Under the Vienna Convention, the United Kingdom will now expel 23 Russian diplomats who have been identified as undeclared intelligence officers.

They have just one week to leave.

This will be the single biggest expulsion for over thirty years and it reflects the fact that this is not the first time that the Russian State has acted against our country.

We will fundamentally degrade Russian intelligence capability

We will urgently develop proposals for new legislative powers to harden our defences against all forms of hostile state activity.

This will include the addition of a targeted power to detain those suspected of hostile state activity at the UK border. This power is currently only permitted in relation to those suspected of terrorism.

And I have asked the Home Secretary to consider whether there is a need for new counter-espionage power

We will also table a Government amendment to the Sanctions Bill to strengthen our powers to impose sanctions in response to the violation of human rights

We will also make full use of existing powers to enhance our efforts to monitor and track the intentions of those travelling to the UK who could be engaged in activity that threatens the security of the UK and of our allies.

So we will increase checks on private flights, customs and freight.

We will freeze Russian State assets wherever we have the evidence that they may be used to threaten the life or property of UK nationals or residents.

And led by the National Crime Agency, we will continue to bring all the capabilities of UK law enforcement to bear against serious criminals and corrupt elites. There is no place for these people – or their money - in our country.

We have had a very simple approach to Russia: Engage but beware.

And I continue to believe it is not in our national interest to break off all dialogue between the United Kingdom and the Russian Federation.

But in the aftermath of this appalling act against our country, this relationship cannot be the same.

So we will suspend all planned high level bi-lateral contacts between the United Kingdom and the Russian Federation.

This includes revoking the invitation to Foreign Minister Lavrov to pay a reciprocal visit to the United Kingdom...

…and confirming there will be no attendance by Ministers - or indeed Members of the Royal Family - at this Summer’s World Cup in Russia.

There are some that cannot be shared publicly for reasons of National Security.

And, of course, there are other measures we stand ready to deploy at any time, should we face further Russian provocation.

https://news.sky.com/story/live-spy-poison-deadline-passes-as-russia-threatens-response-11289189
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Online Roger

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Alfie I think it would have been better if the UK had given Russia 10 days to respond as under the OPCW rules - but maybe the evidence was so overwhelming ? I heard 120 CW specialists from around the World have been working on it. That Facebook stuff ? Hard to believe - maybe just misinformation ?

And 'unexplained' deaths of at least 14 people in the UK ?

After Russia's annexing of Crimea and duplicitous encroachment of Eastern Ukraine - the West has a major problem now. I wonder if things would have been better without the USA installing the anti-missile system in Poland ?




''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Alfie

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Alfie I think it would have been better if the UK had given Russia 10 days to respond as under the OPCW rules

I agree.

but maybe the evidence was so overwhelming ?

No. The evidence is that the nerve agent used was Novichok. The rest is all political. May's argument is poor (it is either only A or B - leaving out C, D, E or anything else). Of course, she added that it was therefore "highly likely" the Russians did it, therefore admitting that it might be something else, yet she chooses to carry on as if her evidence is black and white, 100%, Russia did it.

And the American regime has chimed in, leaving out the "highly likely" part completely from their pronouncements. It is now an "American fact". 555 You couldn't make this shit up.

I am not a fan of Jeremy Corbyn, but I agree with the stance he took yesterday on this issue.

And 'unexplained' deaths of at least 14 people in the UK ?

Unexplained? What did the coroners say at the time?

After Russia's annexing of Crimea and duplicitous encroachment of Eastern Ukraine - the West has a major problem now. I wonder if things would have been better without the USA installing the anti-missile system in Poland ?

Yes, "the West" has a lot to answer for.
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Online Roger

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Alfie - ''The rest is all political'' ?  Or is it ?

Boris Johnson points out (Today Prog.) that Novichok is a Russian nerve agent created there. Russia appears to have illegally retained the Novichok - it should have been destroyed and Russia has not advised that they had lost control of any.

Novichok was used against a Russian target for revenge. Putin has been on TV apparently calling for assassination of traitors abroad by poison.

BJ says the UK has conformed to OPCW procedures by informing them on 8th March and that a sample will be sent soon.

It would have been better to give it 10 days and tie them down . . . .

What a mess !


 
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Offline Alfie

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Alfie - ''The rest is all political'' ?  Or is it ?

Yes it is. May's options to Russia were: (a) you admit you did it [you are guilty] or (b) you tell us how it got to the streets of Salisbury [you know so you are guilty]. c) And if you fail to answer (a) or (b) we will find you guilty.
Russia says they had nothing to do with it. If so, how could they answer either one? The UK gave Russia 36 hours to say they were guilty and if they didn't say they were guilty, the UK would find them guilty. It's laughable.

Boris Johnson points out (Today Prog.) that Novichok is a Russian nerve agent created there.

VX was created in Britain by Britain. Does that mean Britain is giulty of the murder of Kim Jong-un's brother in Malaysia?
Sarin was created in Germany by Germany. Does that mean Germany is guilty of the Tokyo subway attack in 1995?

Russia appears to have illegally retained the Novichok - it should have been destroyed and Russia has not advised that they had lost control of any.

There you go again - "appears to". Where is the proof? You are using that kind of weak argument to back up you other weak arguments, and you draw your conclusions from that. Poor, Roger. Very poor.

Novichok was used against a Russian target for revenge.

Perhaps yes, perhaps no. But if so, by who? That it was Russia is your opinion or conclusion. It is not a fact - not yet a known fact by us anyway.
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Online caller

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I can't be bothered to post any links, as it's so widely out there. But all the experts, scientists, even a Russian who worked on the programme, has said only a state can do this and the only state doing it is Russia.

Appease all you like but you are wrong IMO and Corbyn should be shot as the traitor he is. His own MP's were stunned by his response in Parliament and openly turned against him.


Online Hector

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Online Roger

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Alfie - in reply to yours. I'm happy for you to agree or disagree but why so dismissive ? I refer to your comment, 'Poor, Roger. Very poor.'  ???

The top chemical weapons experts in the World have been advising the UK Govt. about Novichok and it's status as a 'State' element and the certainty of it's origin. VX and Sarin are maybe not so rare a commodity as Novichok.

I repeat, on the face of it, IMO - ''It would have been better to give it 10 days and tie them down . . . .'' but I am not a CW expert and I'm not in receipt of all the advice given to the Govt.

Russia is obviously a rogue State in many respects - extensive inquiry into the Litvinenko matter concluded Russia was responsible for his murder and there are 14 other suspicious deaths of concern in the UK alone.

I note the USA, Germany and France have all supported Mrs May now.

Caller and Hector thanks for posting - I'm not actually in favour of shooting Corbyn btw !!  ;)
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online caller

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Caller and Hector thanks for posting - I'm not actually in favour of shooting Corbyn btw !!  ;)

I am, I used to do a bit of work with Special Branch and others and went to their 100th anniversary bash at NSY. I have a long memory.


Online Roger

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The other side of the argument from the Daily Mirror :-

''Despite increasingly international support for Britain's allegations, Russia strongly denies being responsible for the attempting killing of Sergei Skripal and his daughter. Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson upped the ante in Britain's new Cold War with Russia today, claiming that it was "overwhelmingly likely" that Russian President Vladimir Putin personally authorised the chemical attack in Salisbury.

It comes after Theresa May ordered 23 diplomats expelled from the country as she pointed the finger at Moscow for the nerve agent attack which left ex-spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia fighting for their lives. The PM made the decision after Russia failed to respond to questions put to it by the British government about how the nerve agent Novichok - designed by the Soviet Union - was used in the attack
.''

FIVE reasons for the denial are listed in this link . . .  MMmmmmm

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/reasons-russia-claims-isnt-behind-12202064
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 06:21:00 AM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Simon Jenkins again in the Guardian :-

''After the Skripal attack, talk of war only plays into Vladimir Putin’s hands. The official British response to the attempted killing of the Skripals has been precipitate but measured. We do not know the mix of greed, vendetta and shambles that may have fuelled the Salisbury outrage, but it is hard not to treat Moscow as guilty until proved innocent. May’s portfolio of expulsions and ostracisms is the traditional diplomatic ballet. It has received welcome support from the US, France and Germany. Matter closed?

Sadly not. History warns us to distinguish the banality of a single incident from its wider contribution to an emerging crisis. When Archduke Franz Ferdinand was shot in Sarajevo in 1914, the killer was not a state agent but a terrorist with a gun. It could have been settled by a mediating conference. Instead, a continent roused to war fever craved escalation. Soon Austria declared war on Serbia, Germany on Russia and France on Germany. As AJP Taylor wrote afterwards, nothing “caused” the first world war. “Statesmen miscalculated and became prisoners of their own weapons.” At a certain point armed conflict was unavoidable, as nations raced to re-enact some primitive tribal rivalry
.''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/16/skripal-attack-talk-war-vladimir-putin-theresa-may

And the Daily Express playing up the dangers as well as playing them down :-

''ADMIRAL Lord West, a member of the Royal Navy, has said Vladimir Putin is “extremely dangerous” and the UK is at a "real risk of war" with Russia, it has been reported. Mr Lord West has said the world should "get a grip and make some sensible moves" when dealing with Russia and Vladimir Putin. The former First Sea Lord described the Russian leader as a “crook” and said Mr Putin thinks he can “get away with anything”.

Admiral Lord West said: “For someone to have carried out any attack on our soil is extraordinary. “And it’s certainly tied to Russia because of the nerve agent used. “It could have killed British people on the street, and in the old days of imperial rivalries nations went to war over things like this''
.''

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/933068/world-war-3-nuclear-war-russia-vladimir-putin-admiral-lord-west

Here's the playing it down :-

''Russia has always liked to see itself as a superpower on a similar level to the US and China but it really is not. It’s only the 12th largest economy in the world, behind Italy, Canada and South Korea, and just above Australia.

That economy depends mainly on exporting natural resources such as oil and gas, giving it an energy market vulnerability equivalent to Saudi Arabia. If the EU pursued homegrown energy sources like the US does – such as shale gas – we could turn the taps off and bring Putin to his knees.

The Russians have always punched way above their weight and when President Ronald Reagan and Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher called their bluff in the 1980s Cold War, by upping their defence expenditure, the Soviet Union promptly collapsed
.''

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/932646/Vladimir-putin-russian-bear-aggression-tim-newark

And :-

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/932989/UK-Russia-fugitives-Vladimir-Putin-hitlist-topped-murder-Nikolai-Glushkov-in-fear-of-lives

And :-

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/932861/UK-Russia-Vladimir-Putin-kill-Spy-in-Bag-Gareth-Williams-Sergei-Skripal

Sorry about all this - only the DX but catches the imagination . . . .
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Alfie

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Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan and former Rector of the University of Dundee.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDrdlYZXa_o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDrdlYZXa_o</a>
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Online Coolkorat

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Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan and former Rector of the University of Dundee.

Anything fronted by that self-serving twat George Galloway has to be questioned. And the former ambassador? As credible and lucid as David Icke. He was cut loose years ago and knows nothing. Galloway is a highly-paid apologist for anyone with ready cash. A modern Lord Haw-Haw.