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Sergei Skripal case

Alfie · 89 · 3628

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Offline Alfie

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Clearly, the Western intelligence community now has the details of the people behind the attack. The sad events in Salisbury will add even more evidence. Everyone from the CIA, FBI, DGSE in France, etc. will have the full details.

But they don't. The security minister, Ben Wallace, tweeted that the PA report (which other media outlets are quoting) belonged in the “ill-informed and wild speculation folder”.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Online Roger

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Hi Alfie. Ben Wallace plays it down but who knows what the truth may turn out to be ? After all, they traced Litvinenko's killers eventually. Let's hope they get the biggers.

Charlie Rowley has left Hospital so that's good.
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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There is talk of a request for extradition now, so maybe this has been moved on from the Minister's “ill-informed and wild speculation folder”.

And the USA is acting boldly in further support of the UK and other Countries :-

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-08/u-s-sanctions-russia-over-nerve-agent-attack-on-ex-spy-in-u-k

''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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A number of fair reservations were expressed repeatedly, about Theresa May (and BJ's) swift and thorough denunciation of Russia for these 'Novichok' poisonings.

For example :-

''The rest is all political. May's argument is poor (it is either only A or B - leaving out C, D, E or anything else). Of course, she added that it was therefore "highly likely" the Russians did it, therefore admitting that it might be something else, yet she chooses to carry on as if her evidence is black and white, 100%, Russia did it.''

''And the American regime has chimed in, leaving out the "highly likely" part completely from their pronouncements. It is now an "American fact".  You couldn't make this shit up
.''

''Gossip, speculation, smoke and mirrors, but no facts or statements.''

I wonder what Alfie (and Dam) think now :-

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/06/putin-is-responsible-for-novichok-poisoning-says-uk-minister

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/05/novichok-poisoning-what-we-know-so-faro

It looks like a decisive position to me, but of course, the possibility of 'unknowns' exists around the 'knowns' we have. So has Theresa May has been on the button all along ?

Charlie Rowley is struggling with meningitis in Hospital.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 10:16:52 PM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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One of the 14 deaths of Russian nationals in 'circumstances' in the UK in recent years :-

''Detectives investigating the murder of a Russian exile in London believe he was previously the target of a poisoning attempt carried out by two mysterious men from Moscow who visited him in a Bristol hotel room, the Guardian has learned. Nikolai Glushkov, a friend of the late oligarch Boris Berezovsky and a prominent Kremlin critic, was found dead in March at his home in New Malden, south-west London. He had been strangled.

Glushkov is now thought to have survived a previous attempt to kill him by poisoning in 2013, the Guardian can reveal. Detectives are reinvestigating the incident as part of their inquiry into Glushkov’s murder, which took place a week after the novichok poisoning in Salisbury of Sergei and Yulia Skripal
.''

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/07/murdered-russian-exile-nikolai-glushkov-poisoning-attempt-bristol
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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''Of course. It IS a long way and an expensive flight, but let's go and see Salisbury Cathedral spire. We'll fly to Gatwick and then fly back from Heathrow. This'll be fun - we'll see the old clock too. Two days will be OK to check out the UK.''  :-[

Video cameras saw Petrov and Boshirov well away from any tourist attractions, in a residential area, just a few hundred yards from Sergei Skripal's house.

If this is the best the Russian 'Authorities' can do to deny the attempted murder of the Skripals, it's insane. Absolutely laughable. And frightening to think a nuclear power is bound in such idiocy.

But well done Putin - this little farce confirms Russia's culpability in a dreadful crime for all the World to see  ::)  Ridiculous - Russia is run by abject fools - and that's dangerous.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/13/russian-television-channel-rt-says-it-is-to-air-interview-with-skripal-salisbury-attack-suspects
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 09:00:24 AM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online caller

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I think it is deliberate mocking by Putin, probably for his target audience in Russia. He knows the UK has far more CCTV and other evidence, but the disclosure of that is governed by criminal law, so cannot be released at this stage. I believe, but stand to be corrected, that this also includes the two Russians true identities. They might go AWOL now, which might explain their nervousness.


Online Roger

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Hi Caller. Radio 4 'Today' at 8.10 am.

A comment about perceptions in Russia - the interview will be regarded by Russians as 'definitive proof that Moscow was not involved'  ::)  Sadly that may be right.

But on social media in Russia, some mocking about being expected to believe the 'two' were a ''romantic gay couple mad about provincial Gothic architecture''. And ''the idiots (Putin) are doing more and more idiotic things but can't see it because they are idiots.''

The 'two' will not be extradited of course and who knows, they may end up as MP's in Russia, as did one of the Litvinenkov killers.

                                               ************************

More on this to come ?
https://www.newsweek.com/pussy-riot-activist-pyotr-verzilov-may-have-been-poisoned-1119428?piano_t=1

                                               *************************

I was delighted to see that John Terry changed his mind about his 'done deal' to play for Spartak Moscow. He would have been mad to take his Family there. ATB
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Coolkorat

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What is much more concerning is that Russia is conducting its largest military exercises for a generation, with the involvement and cooperation of China.

The Chinese are not fools. They know what has happened. But perhaps it suits them to play this out sitting on the fence as usual.

Trump is quiet. The Gnomes in the NSI, CIA and FBI must be spitting feathers, and with good reason. They know what is happening, and a competent President would have put a covert counter plan in place immediately. But you get the impression Trump baulks at pushing back on Russia, and that the conflicts between the Executive and the branches of government are catastrophically eroding the ability of the US to use it's most powerful tools. The US is more weakened than we think.

I can understand the author of the 'op-ed' in the Washington Times. Whoever it is, they see the same critical issue: for the US to be strong, the government must function. When branches break, the US loses its boughs.


Online Roger

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''One of the two suspects in the Salisbury novichok poisoning has been identified as a highly decorated officer in Russia’s military intelligence service (GRU).

''The online investigative sites Bellingcat and the Insider uncovered information identifying one of the two suspects – previously named as Ruslan Boshirov – as Col Anatoliy Chepiga, a special forces veteran. British investigators also believe one of the pair is Chepiga, the Guardian understands
.''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/26/salisbury-poisoning-suspect-is-russian-colonel-reports

and :-

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/26/skripal-hitman-unmasked-gru-colonel-awarded-russias-highest/
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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I'm just wondering if any K-F's feel continuing doubts ? We had a range of views earlier but as it turns out - was the maybe unsubstantiated instinct of TM and BJ at the time - on the ball or not ?

''Vladimir Putin personally bestowed a “hero of Russia” award on Alexander Mishkin, one of two military intelligence officers who allegedly poisoned Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury, it has been claimed. The investigative website Bellingcat, which identified Mishkin, said on Tuesday that a photograph existed of him shaking hands with the Russian president. It is unclear when or where the ceremony took place.

Bellingcat revealed Mishkin’s true identity on Monday after tracking down his real passport. He travelled to the UK in March under the false name of “Alexander Petrov”, together with fellow GRU officer Anatoliy Chepiga, who used the alias “Ruslan Boshirov”. Bellingcat said residents of Loyga, the remote village where Mishkin grew up, had seen the photo after his grandmother proudly showed it off. She disappeared from the village three days ago, after Bellingcat announced it was about to reveal her grandson’s real identity
.''

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/09/putin-allegedly-gave-skripal-poisoning-suspect-heros-award
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Coolkorat

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Do you think Bellingcat is a front? They are either very very good or get some insider info.

The link to Bellingcat is here https://www.bellingcat.com/


Online Roger

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Hi CK. I think 'Bellingcat' are very good - strangely they seem to be accepted by the media as authoritative. Maybe they are presented as independent so they can comment without involving Govts  ;) I guess it could be a front.

Each time I hear the name, I think of Phoebe Buffay on 'Friends' and her classic song, ''Smellycat''.
Sad I know . . .

I had a look at the website - thanks for the link !
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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So Mr Putin -you credit the GRU, Russia's spy network with, ''professionalism, courage and determination''. I don't think so.  ???

Bungling, cowardly and brainless seem words more appropriate to me. I wonder how that rascal Sergei and Yulia are now . . . .

''MOSCOW—President Vladimir Putin congratulated Russia’s military intelligence, GRU, on its centenary Friday, hailing the agency that has been accused of meddling and violence by the West.
“I’m confident of your professionalism, courage and determination,” Putin said in a speech to GRU officers. Russian President Vladimir Putin delivers a speech at the Russian Army Theatre during the event to mark 100th anniversary from the establishment of the Russian Armed Forces' General Staff in Moscow on November 2. Putin said he highly appreciates intelligence information and analytics provided by the GRU and also praised the agency for its action in Syria, saying it strongly contributed to the success of Russia’s campaign there.

The United States and its allies have accused the GRU of involvement in the March nerve agent attack on a Russian ex-spy in Britain and also of hacking the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign and disrupting anti-doping efforts in sport. Russian authorities have rejected the accusations, calling them part of a Western smear campaign
.''

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2018/11/02/putin-praises-russian-gru-military-intelligence.html
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Coolkorat

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So Mr Putin -you credit the GRU, Russia's spy network with, ''professionalism, courage and determination''. I don't think so. Bungling, cowardly and brainless seem words more appropriate to me.

“I’m confident of your professionalism, courage and determination,” Putin said..()

I don't suppose he can say anything else. Wasn't he in the GRU (or it's predecessor)?

Quote
I wonder how that rascal Sergei and Yulia are now . . . .

Lining up a juicy book deal methinks.


Online Roger

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Coolkorat - Putin would be better to say nothing (in the circumstances) than to prove conclusively that what others think about him, is right . .

As for the 'book' - sometimes I think you are a cynic  ;) 

But probably correct - and I know just the Lady to write it  8)
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Strange :- 

''Head of the GRU Colonel-General Igor Korobov was reported to have died. The Russian defence ministry didn't give any details about his sudden death. He was previously slammed by Putin for his response to the Salisbury poisoning. Last month he was said to have been in 'sudden ill health' after meeting Putin.''

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6416095/Head-Russian-spy-agency-dies-aged-63-long-illness.html
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Even in these heady days, 2 and 2 make just 4. But Putin is not a man to cross   :o

''It was unsurprising, then, that news of the death of Igor Korobov, the agency’s head, should cause a flurry of speculation about its timing. Korobov, 62, died after a “long and difficult illness”, according to a short news item released by Russian agencies on Wednesday evening. Rumours had surfaced in recent months that Korobov had been dressed down by Putin after a series of public failures by the agency, and subsequently fallen ill.''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/russian-military-intelligence-heads-death-causes-inevitable-speculation

DS Nick Bailey has told of the horrors of the Novichok :-

''... shortly after leaving the house, Bailey began to feel unwell. “My pupils were like pinpricks. And I was quite sweaty and hot.” He had gone home, but was rushed into hospital. “Everything was juddering. I was very unsteady on my feet,” he said. Bailey said he did not know how he came into contact with the novichok. “I don’t know … if it’s gone through the gloves. I could have adjusted my face mask and my goggles whilst I was in the house with it being on my hand. It’s such an outrageous, dangerous way of doing something that it angered me as well, because any number of people could have been affected by that.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/22/i-was-petrified-officer-poisoned-by-novichok-tells-of-emotional-battering
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Coolkorat

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''... shortly after leaving the house, Bailey began to feel unwell. “My pupils were like pinpricks. And I was quite sweaty and hot.” He had gone home, but was rushed into hospital. “Everything was juddering. I was very unsteady on my feet,” he said. Bailey said he did not know how he came into contact with the novichok. “I don’t know … if it’s gone through the gloves. I could have adjusted my face mask and my goggles whilst I was in the house with it being on my hand. It’s such an outrageous, dangerous way of doing something that it angered me as well, because any number of people could have been affected by that.”

That they found the bottle was coincidental (and tragic) but thank god they did. Enough noichok to kill thousands left inside it. The Brits, US intelligence, French etc. must have incredible detail on the people who did this, how, where they are now etc.

I find the silence on this shocking: Trump beaming at Putin at the WWI commemoration (or, in Trump-speak, 'celebration') is disgusting. I think the dossier and it's findings regarding 'kompromat' on Trump is wholly believable. And I do not think it is just the Russians who have kompromat: I suspect there is more out there.


Online Roger

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Now I'm sorry to say, this IS an 'Evil Empire' - bring back Boris Yeltsin.

''Suvorov, by contrast, abandoned the Soviet Union for ideological reasons; he became a passionate anti-communist. He doesn’t regard his defection as treachery: as he points out, he left the USSR first – but every other Soviet citizen followed when it ceased to exist. For the past 40 years, he has lived under sentence of death. “I have two death sentences [from the GRU and the Soviet supreme court],” he smiles. “You can’t imagine how relaxing this can be. You don’t worry about money or headaches or getting ill. You think to yourself: ‘It doesn’t matter! I’m dead!’''

''He says the agency never forgives anyone who leaves it. That includes Skripal, who exited Russia clutching an official pardon signed by Putin. “The state may forgive. The GRU never will,” Suvorov says. In exile, Skripal had such a low profile that Suvorov confesses he hadn’t heard of him. But when he learned of Skripal’s fate, poisoned by a super-toxin, he had no doubt who was behind it. “Of course, the GRU,” he says, matter-of-factly.''

And WE went to play football . . . .

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/29/ex-soviet-spy-viktor-suvorov
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 08:28:00 PM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein