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Roger · 29 · 1173

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Offline Coolkorat

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Quote from: Boris Johnson
Nor do I doubt for a second that this disgusting assassination was ordered at the highest levels of the Saudi regime.

Does he believe it was ordered by the King or ordered by the Crown Prince?

My take is that he knows it was ordered by the Crown Prince. What the Saudis did not expect was that the Turkish would have such sophisticated surveillance of their consulate (having been tipped-off, probably by the UK). The Turkish government knows much more than the Saudis ever anticipated and now hold a trump card (pun intended).

What Boris doesn't explain is why people should be more worried about Iran than Saudi Arabia (or Turkey). He conveniently omits to note that the single most devastating attack on the US was carried out by Saudis (9/11). Iran continues on a gradually path towards moderate policies and is already far more progressive and inclusive for women than Saudi Arabia (which has only just allowed women to drive). In ten years Iran will be a very different country as the religious leadership die and government becomes more secular. The US trying to force regime change is a terrible policy: let the Iranian people decide their own future - backing them into a corner is the wrong way and will just reinforce the influence of the hardliners. A more sensible policy would be to try and get as many progressive influences into Iran as possible: give them Netflix, Amazon, amazing 5G wifi, planes to travel on, visas to visit the world. They won't spread poison, they'll bring progress home with them. Give them access to the world, and see how long it takes them to boot out the mullahs. 


Online caller

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What Boris doesn't explain is why people should be more worried about Iran than Saudi Arabia (or Turkey).

Because they are developing a nuclear capability and could feasibly attack Israel, given the chance, or even SA, who they are enemies of.

Everything else I agree with.


Offline Coolkorat

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What Boris doesn't explain is why people should be more worried about Iran than Saudi Arabia (or Turkey).

Because they are developing a nuclear capability and could feasibly attack Israel, given the chance, or even SA, who they are enemies of.

Everything else I agree with.

But, on balance, a nuclear ability is what it is. Israel has nuclear weapons, even though this is hidden. Saudi could  have them (and intelligence suggests so). They are just another weapon, and no "better" or "worse" than the terrible stuff being unleashed on those people in Yemen or Syria. It's all shit. Our shame is that we don't hold the people who do this responsible. We're cowards lead by sheep.


Online Roger

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CK good post (Reply 22) if I may say so. I hadn't thought about the surveillance point - yes the Saudi team walked right into it didn't they ? Lock stock and barrel. As did poor Mr Kashoggi . . .

The Crown Prince is surely culpable either directly for ordering the murder or if he didn't, then indirectly for his incompetence in not controlling the security services - 18 staff fly on a private jet to Turkey and he doesn't know ?

Alfie - who knows what BJ thinks about the King's involvement in the murder ? The King must be furious with the Crown Prince for dragging Saudi Arabia into all this approbation - somewhere I saw a report that the Crown Prince is outraged at the World's reaction  ::)
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Offline Coolkorat

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I saw a report that the Crown Prince is outraged at the World's reaction  ::)thi

Outraged that the world would not accept the reply of the Saudis. And, QED, the 'world' has conceded.

Consider this already forgotten. Not worth $4B in armaments deals. But how long can Saudi carry this. I am by no means anti-Saudi, but I want to be fair and I want everyone to have a voice.


Offline Alfie

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Germany, France, UK, US and Saudi Arabia 'have Khashoggi tapes'

Turkey has shared audio recording of Saudi journalist’s killing, President Erdoğan says

“We gave the tapes. We gave them to Saudi Arabia, to the United States, Germans, French and British, all of them. They have listened to all the conversations in them. They know,” Erdoğan said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/10/germany-france-uk-us-and-saudi-arabia-have-khashoggi-tapes
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


Online Roger

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Erdogan is playing a blinder with the Kashoggi affair . . . .

Erdogan's 'image' improved with the recent release of that American Pastor prior to Kashoggi's murder - maybe we can hope that Ergdogan enjoys this limelight enough to seek more approval by easing up on his brutal treatment of his own people at home in Turkey.

I never want to hear those tapes myself - no doubt at some stage somewhere, there will be a leak !

Handing a copy to the USA etc., - that was ruthless. I don't see that the Crown Prince can survive this debacle.

''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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Obviously, the Saudi nation deeply regrets their action over poor Mr Kashoggi . . . BUT . . . one questions their sincerity if this comment is right  >:(

''Publicly, the Kingdom’s leaders publicly appear chastened and contrite in the wake of Khashoggi’s gruesome killing inside the Saudi consulate. In private though, senior members of the House of Saud, including the crown prince, are partly blaming Turkey for the global revulsion, which they say could have been contained if Ankara had played by “regional rules”.''

I think that means that the murder was OK really but Turkey 'blacklegged' on normal ''decency'' in the region - or something like that. Horrifying indeed  >:(

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/12/saudi-arabia-crown-prince-mohammed-wings-clipped-as-khashoggi-death-rattles-riyadh
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein


Online Roger

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I heard this a few days ago - the death penalty has been proposed for the 'suspects' so far accused - what if the Crown Prince himself is found to be involved ?

The Guardian today :-

''The CIA has concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the assassination of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul, the Washington Post has reported. The Post said US officials expressed high confidence in the CIA assessment, which contradicts Saudi government assertions that he was not involved. It is the strongest assessment to date linking Saudi Arabia’s de facto ruler to the killing, and complicates Donald Trump’s efforts to safeguard US ties with one of the closest American allies in the region.''

''Earlier this week Saudi Arabia said it would pursue the death penalty for five suspects charged with ordering and carrying out the killing
.''

Whoops ! Reports of Saudi anger because each successive story is rejected and investigated causing another version to emerge. Erdogan of Turkey has the screws full on. The Saudis are used to having their own way.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/16/cia-determines-saudi-crown-prince-ordered-journalists-killing-washington-post



« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 12:42:23 PM by Roger »
''If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough'' - Albert Einstein